SKYRIM

[Cain]

Having got it for Xmas, I'm playing exactly as I thought I would: Imperial, using sneak and stealth to wear down the enemy from a distance, then closing in and dual wielding for the kill.  As a rule, in RPGs, I play the most rogue-like class, as this suits my style of play best.  I'm going to branch out into Illusion magic a bit more once I'm about level 10 or so, but that will be to aid my primary modes of attack, rather than to replace it.

Unfortunate problem: not having a proper mouse made fighting rather difficult, as enemies would slip behind me and then power attack me as I desperately used the mousepad to try and wheel around.  I have now fixed this problem, but it remains to be seen if I can take down this bandit chief.

Advantages over Oblivion: characters are no longer so ugly I want to kill them on sight, junking the stats system entirely, caves are much prettier, regenerating damage outside of combat (something which seems to be becoming a standard among computer game RPGs, and something I approve of).

Disadvantages: levelling up seems to happen much more quickly due to there being no class favourites any more.  That I was level 6 with only a couple of hours of play was....disconcernting to me, especially since it took about 10 hours longer to do the same in Morrowind.  I'm sure as I get more powerful, levelling up will take longer, but it feels a little too fast for my liking.

I've decided I'm going to concentrate on side quests first, then the dragonborn quests, then the Civil War.  I rank giant flying lizards that breathe fire above territorial pissing matches in terms of importance, plus I suspect no matter which side you play, you're going to be asked to play a fairly significant role, and having a badass Dovahkiin playing such a prominent role makes more sense to me than some semi-famous killer of bandits and looter of tombs doing the same.

[Don Coyote]

IMO you get way more mileage out of doing the side quests then the Dragonborn quests with the civil war for last. Other wise you end up finishing the Dragonborn questline at level 25 feeling very underwhelmed.

Leveling starts to slow down after 20.

[Nast]

I've enjoyed Skyrim for the most part but I too have gotten burnt out on it.

I think the game designers paid some attention to people's criticisms of Oblivion and made changes to improve the gameplay and streamline the stats system. While it is still basically just mashing the left and right triggers, that aspect of gameplay doesn't bother me so much. I think what got me is that... it's too expansive in some areas. I got tired of clearing my way through yet another bandit-filled dungeon, obsessively checking all containers in case they are full of randomly generated shinies. Like, at this point I'd rather go and pick flowers in the pine forest.

It may be the nostalgia factor, but for me Morrowind is still my favorite Elder Scrolls game. You got a real sense of being in an alien land and culture. Skyrim is stylistically more similar to Oblivion, so it has that sense of classic fantasy that I can only take in small doses.

[Cainad (dec.)]

I never played Morrowind in earnest, sadly, but I do have a copy on my computer that I've briefly toyed around with after I got tired of Oblivion. It's really hard to go back to something from those days when I'm spoiled on modern graphics and gameplay, which is definitely shallow of me.

But I can totally see what Nast is talking about, and I got my little taste of how weird and interesting Morrowind was next to "standard" Swordz&Spellz fantasy when some NPC said "the Silt-Strider can take you there" and I was like "wtf is a Silt-Strider"

then after a few more minutes of exploring, I heard a curious deep groaning sound in the distance and OH MY GOD IT'S A GIANT FUCKING BUG WHAT THE SHIT oh so this is the totally normal mode of transport in this game... woah.


I think games like Skyrim could absolutely benefit from some more of that really fantastical fantasy. Maybe we'll get something for Skyrim akin to what the Shivering Isles expansion was for Oblivion.

[Triple Zero]

every. time. I see this topic.

[Cain]

You can upgrade Morrowind's graphics to Oblivion or better levels fairly easily.#

And yeah, Morrowind was really quite alien and different to Oblivion and Skyrim, which are trying to appeal for a larger audience, and so have gone back towards the more traditional fantasy elements.  In some ways, it reminds me of Bioware - their Planescape: Torment is probably one of the best (and strangest) RPGs ever made, one where you can never die, combat is almost always irrelevant, there is only one magic sword in the whole game (or maybe less) and almost everything proceeds on the basis of dialogue.

In both cases, Bethesda and Bioware have had to water down their potential for truly immersive and creative gaming experiences for commercial success.  They're still good...but not as good as they could be.

[Bu🤠ns]

You can upgrade Morrowind's graphics to Oblivion or better levels fairly easily.#

And yeah, Morrowind was really quite alien and different to Oblivion and Skyrim, which are trying to appeal for a larger audience, and so have gone back towards the more traditional fantasy elements.  In some ways, it reminds me of Bioware - their Planescape: Torment is probably one of the best (and strangest) RPGs ever made, one where you can never die, combat is almost always irrelevant, there is only one magic sword in the whole game (or maybe less) and almost everything proceeds on the basis of dialogue.

In both cases, Bethesda and Bioware have had to water down their potential for truly immersive and creative gaming experiences for commercial success.  They're still good...but not as good as they could be.

That's an interesting point.  can you be more specific as I've never played Planescape: Torment and only a teeny bit of Morrowind. How do you think it could be more immersive and creative?

[Cain]

World building, basically.  Oblivion was standard fantasty cliche-land - very beautifully rendered, and with a bit more back story (due to previous Elder Scrolls games) but, when you got down to it, it was knights and thieves and wizards and assassins, big-ass towers and simplistic good/evil distinctions - especially when it came to enemies (you can slaughter lesser daedra with nary a thought, same for the anonymous looking and totally replaceable bandits).  With a few tweaks, the same could be said for almost any fantasy RPG of the last decade, with very few exceptions aside (Dragon Age 2, maybe, and that was due to an executive decision from EA, not what Bioware had intended).

I mean, when you consider with fantasy you could almost go anywhere and have any sort of enemies and plots and backgrounds, the fact that it invariably comes down to kingdoms and castles and wizards is why I consider fantasy the genre of unimaginative hacks.

There should be multiple paths to victory, but even more paths to failure.  I was talking with Cram and what we concluded was the basic failing of Bioware was railroading characters along a very narrow selection of choices to achieve the final plot outcome, and the failing of Bethesda was the complete and utter lack of urgency at all - the sandbox is great to play in, but does anyone really feel the urgent need to rush off and save Skyrim from the Imperials/Stormcloaks?

What Morrowind did differently was that it put the island of Vvanderfall into a complex social and political context, one that increasingly made sense the more you discovered about it, but was quite alien at the outset.  It was a colony on the edge of open rebellion, due to historical and religious factors and the Emperor sent you there as a gambit, because you fulfilled certain conditions that could plausibly make you another figure from Dwemer history and religion who could not only defeat this rebellion before it started, but also break the authority of the Tribunal, whose cultural practices (such as slavery) were anathema to the Empire, and secure the authority of the King's court in Mournhold.

As for PS:T, you're also dealing with an entirely alien setting, IMO one of the best in the D&D franchise.  The City of Sigil is at the heart of the expanded multiverse of the series, it can be accessed from anywhere and it can access anywhere.  As such, creatures normally considered monstrous and evil are a common sight there and, because of the strict rules that govern Sigil, behave themselves.  So already you're looking at something quite different.

Your companions include a floating skull, a chaste succubi, an automaton, a pyromaniac and a merciless expression of justice.  Your wisdom, intelligence and charisma stats are far more important than any other, and apart from a few minor scuffles (and some important plot-related ones) combat is almost always optional, and rarely the best option available.  And the plot...well, heavy themes of existentialism and the possibility/impossibility of redemption throughout.   Throw in the various factions that exist in Sigil, and you've got a lot more philosophical content than most novels manage to fit in.

[Telarus]

Well said, Cain.

[Cain]

Thanks.  Myself and Cram also talked about the urgent need for Bioware and Bethesda to work together to create The Ultimate CRPG.  Between Bioware's voice acting, interpersonal dialogue and ability to track multiple options in gameplay through to a final conclusion, and Bethesda's ability to create a giant, freewheeling and almost entirely interactive world, you could have a killer combination, if they managed to combine their strengths.

Sure, it'd probably wreck all but the most current computers, and require insane amounts of disk space (in excess of 30 gig, easily), but it'd kill the competition and probably sweep the board for industry awards.

[Da6s]

but it'd kill the competition and probably sweep the board for industry awards.

Until the major companies put pressure on the critics to only award and promote the next twitch happy MW remake, because those have higher sales numbers. And are only what the real video gamer demographic play, at least until the next Madden comes out. And PC gaming is a dying market.

I really fucking hate the gaming industry. I hate the blogs that fire writers for posting negative reviews more.

[Cain]

but it'd kill the competition and probably sweep the board for industry awards.

Until the major companies put pressure on the critics to only award and promote the next twitch happy MW remake, because those have higher sales numbers. And are only what the real video gamer demographic play, at least until the next Madden comes out. And PC gaming is a dying market.

I really fucking hate the gaming industry. I hate the blogs that fire writers for posting negative reviews more.

Uh no, but thanks for playing.

[Scribbly]

This mod alone makes Skyrim the most profound contribution to culture in the past ten years at least: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bifmj1O3D24

(Warning, spoils the opening of the game)

[Don Coyote]

This mod alone makes Skyrim the most profound contribution to culture in the past ten years at least: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bifmj1O3D24

(Warning, spoils the opening of the game)

That was possibly more terrifying than the Spider-mans Vs zoidbergs video.

[Phox]

This mod alone makes Skyrim the most profound contribution to culture in the past ten years at least: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bifmj1O3D24

(Warning, spoils the opening of the game)

That was possibly more terrifying than the Spider-mans Vs zoidbergs video.

Those two mods indicate that if/when I get it, I will never play the vanilla game.