No wonder young girls don't get into science.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I think it's pretty screwed up that wearing a dress at all was a matter for a beating.

He's not living up to his father's preconceived expectations.  What was the dad supposed to do?  He HAD to beat the homo out of the kid, right?  Otherwise he'd have to watch football alone when he's 80.

I think you need to show a little more sensitivity here, Kai.

TGRR,
Just ran his tongue through the side of his cheek.

Sometimes, despite the fact that I know it's explicit horror mirth, I still want to punch someone when you write things like this.

I am merely a mirror, reflecting America™ back on itself, Kai.  The yahoos up in Oro Valley actually think like that, and I'm sure you know a few cavemen, too. 

There's always gonna be assholes, dude.

[Jenne]

...
His mother came in and picked him up one day and yelled and screamed at me.  Said that if his father ever knew he dressed up in dresses at school, he'd beat his child, her then ME.  I stared at her.  And then I hated her.  I couldn't believe this kid, this beautiful boy, was in the hands of these monsters.  I mean, she was trying to be funny about it, but to me, it's not a joke.  That kid was on his way to being fairly screwed up if wearing a dress for play was a matter for a beating.

for clarification... was she joking about the beating thing, or did you get the impression that it was an actual possibility?

I don't think the guy would have come after me, no, but he'd have complained to the management/school owner.  And yes, she probably would've caught hell along with her son. 

Still pisses me off to this day, and this was 16 years ago.

[Jenne]

I think it's pretty screwed up that wearing a dress at all was a matter for a beating.

It is screwed up.  It's beyond screwed up.  This classic case of fear cuts to the quick, doesn't it?  It was shocking to me at the time, which shows you how sheltered I grew up.  My own dad's pretty alpha, but he wouldn't beat a child or his mother for wearing a fucking dress...esp seeing how happy the kid was in it.

I tell you what though--when I worked in the preschool in the afternoons, I knew to take the dress off of him 4-5 mins before his mom came to get him.  He still got to wear it, and gaze at himself in the little handheld mirror that came along with all the playset stuff.  He'd build blocks in the dress and sometimes wear a crown with it.  And we let him.  Until we knew it was close to the time he had to go home. 

Yes, I was an old hand at subterfuge back in the day.

[Phox]

I think it's pretty screwed up that wearing a dress at all was a matter for a beating.

It is screwed up.  It's beyond screwed up.  This classic case of fear cuts to the quick, doesn't it?  It was shocking to me at the time, which shows you how sheltered I grew up.  My own dad's pretty alpha, but he wouldn't beat a child or his mother for wearing a fucking dress...esp seeing how happy the kid was in it.

I tell you what though--when I worked in the preschool in the afternoons, I knew to take the dress off of him 4-5 mins before his mom came to get him.  He still got to wear it, and gaze at himself in the little handheld mirror that came along with all the playset stuff.  He'd build blocks in the dress and sometimes wear a crown with it.  And we let him.  Until we knew it was close to the time he had to go home. 

Yes, I was an old hand at subterfuge back in the day.

Good. 

[ñͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅé ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞]

I liked to wear dresses and sparkly girl shoes when I was a wee one. I only very vaguely remember it though.

I still think women get to wear all the interesting clothes. Guy clothes haven't changed significantly in what, a hundred years, a hundred and fifty? Help me out here, Suu.

I think it's pretty screwed up that wearing a dress at all was a matter for a beating.

It is screwed up.  It's beyond screwed up.  This classic case of fear cuts to the quick, doesn't it?  It was shocking to me at the time, which shows you how sheltered I grew up.  My own dad's pretty alpha, but he wouldn't beat a child or his mother for wearing a fucking dress...esp seeing how happy the kid was in it.

I tell you what though--when I worked in the preschool in the afternoons, I knew to take the dress off of him 4-5 mins before his mom came to get him.  He still got to wear it, and gaze at himself in the little handheld mirror that came along with all the playset stuff.  He'd build blocks in the dress and sometimes wear a crown with it.  And we let him.  Until we knew it was close to the time he had to go home. 

Yes, I was an old hand at subterfuge back in the day.

That's awesome.

[Kai]

I think it's pretty screwed up that wearing a dress at all was a matter for a beating.

It is screwed up.  It's beyond screwed up.  This classic case of fear cuts to the quick, doesn't it?  It was shocking to me at the time, which shows you how sheltered I grew up.  My own dad's pretty alpha, but he wouldn't beat a child or his mother for wearing a fucking dress...esp seeing how happy the kid was in it.

I tell you what though--when I worked in the preschool in the afternoons, I knew to take the dress off of him 4-5 mins before his mom came to get him.  He still got to wear it, and gaze at himself in the little handheld mirror that came along with all the playset stuff.  He'd build blocks in the dress and sometimes wear a crown with it.  And we let him.  Until we knew it was close to the time he had to go home. 

Yes, I was an old hand at subterfuge back in the day.

As Reverend Michal used to say to me, "It's a piece of cloth. How does a piece of cloth have a gender?"

[Nadezhda]

Related to a couple pages ago - I want tools with lime green handles!  I don't like the baby pink, or the fugly semi-navy blue most tools come in.  Lime green is a little too happy, and I like that.

I would take apart things like my barbie van and my laptop.  My dad made the same face when he saw them disassembled, and the same face when he found out I put them back together by myself.  Shock, horror, disbelief.

I want a lime green hammer.

[Elder Iptuous]

Duracoat, the product that is used on firearms to make them vibrant colors, is available in a very wide spectrum.  they have a lime green, and it is suitable for hard use items beyond just firearms.

[Jenne]

I think it's pretty screwed up that wearing a dress at all was a matter for a beating.

It is screwed up.  It's beyond screwed up.  This classic case of fear cuts to the quick, doesn't it?  It was shocking to me at the time, which shows you how sheltered I grew up.  My own dad's pretty alpha, but he wouldn't beat a child or his mother for wearing a fucking dress...esp seeing how happy the kid was in it.

I tell you what though--when I worked in the preschool in the afternoons, I knew to take the dress off of him 4-5 mins before his mom came to get him.  He still got to wear it, and gaze at himself in the little handheld mirror that came along with all the playset stuff.  He'd build blocks in the dress and sometimes wear a crown with it.  And we let him.  Until we knew it was close to the time he had to go home.  

Yes, I was an old hand at subterfuge back in the day.

As Reverend Michal used to say to me, "It's a piece of cloth. How does a piece of cloth have a gender?"

There are cultural stigmas to everything, Kai, you know that.  And clothing has become a line of demarcation folks use to tell one another apart.  Pure and simple.

Some people FEAR, fundamentally, that coloring outside the lines that happens when the mind is open to change.  Some people FEAR and are willing to strike out against their children opening their own minds to change without the parental direction that would make them "safe" in doing so.

It's fucked up.  My kiddo tried on gramma's sparkly spike heels at 2 with his cousin of the same age, and we prize that photo my mom took of it.  The look of sheer joy on the boy's face mixed with "tee hee, lookie what I got?" makes it priceless.  I don't know where this man in my example went wrong in his head about what is well and good for his son at THREE to explore--I shudder to think what has happened to the two of theme these last 15 years!

[Elder Iptuous]

one of the family photos my mom always drags out is when my sister dressed me, at 3 years of age, in a tutu and had me do a ballet for everyone.  it was funny.
although an angry reaction (and certainly a violent one) is uncalled for and counter-productive for the father to have, i can understand why he might be dismayed if his son were to have a habit of wearing women's clothes.  the vast majority of men do not want their sons to be homosexual, and signs that may be seen to point in that direction can be unsettling.  the degree to which homosexual behavior and urges is influenced by nurture v nature is contentious, and certainly not a settled by very wide margin from the observations that i've had.
if the father were not acting like a douche, according to the remarks of the wife, and the parents both came to you and respectfully asked that you not let him wear the dress, would you have complied?

[Jenne]

She already did that, and said in very strict words she didn't want that.  She wasn't terribly disrespectful, I felt at the time, just overreacted I thought.  

The only way I would've stopped is if 1) my boss had said to and 2) the co-workers agreed.  But my fellow co-workers and I were on this sort of secret mission to let the kid explore and learn in his own way.  We were a private school--we could get away with that shit.  But if the bosslady had brought the hammer down (now, she was a wife of a longtime friend of my grandfather's, so the nepotism here would have extended far enough that if I'd gotten in trouble with the parents, it'd been ok, something odd had happened similar to this about kids playing in puddles and being wet and I got blamed, blah blah and she had my back), I probably would have had to capitulate.

[Kai]

one of the family photos my mom always drags out is when my sister dressed me, at 3 years of age, in a tutu and had me do a ballet for everyone.  it was funny.
although an angry reaction (and certainly a violent one) is uncalled for and counter-productive for the father to have, i can understand why he might be dismayed if his son were to have a habit of wearing women's clothes.  the vast majority of men do not want their sons to be homosexual, and signs that may be seen to point in that direction can be unsettling.  the degree to which homosexual behavior and urges is influenced by nurture v nature is contentious, and certainly not a settled by very wide margin from the observations that i've had.
if the father were not acting like a douche, according to the remarks of the wife, and the parents both came to you and respectfully asked that you not let him wear the dress, would you have complied?

The equation of wearing women's clothes to being homosexual is idiotic. I honestly hope you're not making that case.

[Elder Iptuous]

no.
but i believe that the large majority of men would see a habit of wearing women's clothing as a sign pointing in that direction, rightly or wrongly.
would you think this an incorrect expectation?

[LMNO]

If you're saying that the majority of men are fucking idiots because they assume "boys wearing dresses = gay", then I agree with you.

[Kai]

If you're saying that the majority of men are fucking idiots because they assume "boys wearing dresses = gay", then I agree with you.

Exactly. I don't think we should give any time for that argument, regardless of how many people think it.