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Obese Third Grader Taken From Parents.....

Started by Dysfunctional Cunt, November 28, 2011, 06:26:02 PM

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Mesozoic Mister Nigel

Quote from: Science me, babby on November 29, 2011, 09:30:19 AM
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on November 29, 2011, 04:06:08 AM
I think taking the kid is too extreme, without more input pertaining to the parent's willful neglect and/or abuse. There should be some sort of mandatory meeting with a pediatrician and/or nutritionist or something. Weekly, if possible. But taking the kid . . . I don't think that's going to help him at all. Even if he loses weight, his head is going to be all fucked up because of this.

Yeah.  "YOU CAN'T LIVE WITH YOUR FAMILY ANYMORE BECAUSE YOU'RE TOO FAT."  How's that for a setup for a lifetime of eating disorders?

I'm not saying that taking the kid from his family was the right thing to do, but from a medical perspective it appears to be "lose weight or die", and after a YEAR he had only lost a few pounds, and then gained them back again. And was gaining additional weight.

I swear that if one more person offers an opinion without reading the fucking article I'm going to slap them in the eyes with my dick.
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


LMNO


Jenne

Quote from: Iptuous on November 29, 2011, 06:20:47 PM
so, would an overweight child (defined by BMI of 25 or more) trigger the warning to their parents?
i mean, is the 'overweight' label as defined on the CDC page the line you would draw?
or the 'obese' label? of 30 BMI...
we'd have to hire a shitload of state funded dieticians based on that alarming trend graphic!


Ok, here's the thing--any pediatrician worth their weight in salt will tell the parents of a kid that obese that yes they need to work on getting that weight down and will in fact refer the kid to a dietician.  Period.  EOS.

BUT AND HOWEVER, we all know that docs range in ability and ease of use, like any other profession.  Some doctors do not follow up either.  Follow-up and prevention are probably, alongside education, the biggest factors as to why this shit gets missed until type II diabetes takes over epidemic like in whole families and communities.

Cardinal Pizza Deliverance.

Quote from: Nigel on November 29, 2011, 06:55:43 PM
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on November 29, 2011, 04:06:08 AM
I think taking the kid is too extreme, without more input pertaining to the parent's willful neglect and/or abuse. There should be some sort of mandatory meeting with a pediatrician and/or nutritionist or something. Weekly, if possible. But taking the kid . . . I don't think that's going to help him at all. Even if he loses weight, his head is going to be all fucked up because of this.

Did you read the article? Because the child has been in a program at the hospital for some time.

Yeah, I read the article. I'd like to know what exactly that Rainbow program entailed and how often the social workers monitoring the program were in contact with the child and his family. I doubt it was with any sort of consistency, given my family's experience with such programs.

I like the quote:

QuoteWhen told of the Regino case, Ludwig said his solution of state intervention did not always work.

"Well, state intervention is no guarantee of a good outcome, but to do nothing is also not an answer," he said.

Yeah.
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Jenne

Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on November 29, 2011, 07:05:50 PM
Quote from: Nigel on November 29, 2011, 06:55:43 PM
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on November 29, 2011, 04:06:08 AM
I think taking the kid is too extreme, without more input pertaining to the parent's willful neglect and/or abuse. There should be some sort of mandatory meeting with a pediatrician and/or nutritionist or something. Weekly, if possible. But taking the kid . . . I don't think that's going to help him at all. Even if he loses weight, his head is going to be all fucked up because of this.

Did you read the article? Because the child has been in a program at the hospital for some time.

Yeah, I read the article. I'd like to know what exactly that Rainbow program entailed and how often the social workers monitoring the program were in contact with the child and his family. I doubt it was with any sort of consistency, given my family's experience with such programs.

I like the quote:

QuoteWhen told of the Regino case, Ludwig said his solution of state intervention did not always work.

“Well, state intervention is no guarantee of a good outcome, but to do nothing is also not an answer,” he said.

Yeah.

Seems like you're willing to err on the side of so called parental rights rather than the benefits of getting a child whose health is failing (let's not forget the factoid he went to the ER BECAUSE HE COULD NO LONGER BREATHE ON HIS OWN) some help that lasts longer than a few months/weeks.

Jenne

Quote from: Khara on November 29, 2011, 06:35:28 PM
I would say warnings should come at overweight and action taken at obese.  Dieticians are cheaper than extended medical treatment and hospital stays, test and so forth in the long run though.

Insulin shots--they are FOREVER!!!

Jenne

Quote from: Nigel on November 29, 2011, 07:00:53 PM
Quote from: Science me, babby on November 29, 2011, 09:30:19 AM
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on November 29, 2011, 04:06:08 AM
I think taking the kid is too extreme, without more input pertaining to the parent's willful neglect and/or abuse. There should be some sort of mandatory meeting with a pediatrician and/or nutritionist or something. Weekly, if possible. But taking the kid . . . I don't think that's going to help him at all. Even if he loses weight, his head is going to be all fucked up because of this.

Yeah.  "YOU CAN'T LIVE WITH YOUR FAMILY ANYMORE BECAUSE YOU'RE TOO FAT."  How's that for a setup for a lifetime of eating disorders?

I'm not saying that taking the kid from his family was the right thing to do, but from a medical perspective it appears to be "lose weight or die", and after a YEAR he had only lost a few pounds, and then gained them back again. And was gaining additional weight.

I swear that if one more person offers an opinion without reading the fucking article I'm going to slap them in the eyes with my dick.

I know what it is, Nigel--it's the fear that taking the kid away is worse than letting him rot in his natural state with those who birthed him.

It's a good fear to have.  However, I think in this case, it might be misplaced.  I see a system that has tried to get a family to comply, not a system that is geared to abuse its authority outright.

Cardinal Pizza Deliverance.

http://www.uhhospitals.org/rainbowchildren/ourservices/divisionofendocrinologymetabolism/tabid/466/healthykidshealthyweight.aspx

Here's the low-down on the program they put the kid in. I like that it addresses the entire family and gives them access to dietitians and exercise specialists. I think it would be more effective if the core program lasted longer than 12 weeks.

My brother's heart blew up when he was a kid. He got a pacemaker and a defibrillator when he was around 18. He was so massive and overweight, 6'0'' and 400+ lbs that his heart couldn't take it. He couldn't sleep, couldn't breathe well, and couldn't get around too great.

No one seemed to really care about him or his issues, or what was going on in our home. They just went through the motions and shoved him off their caseload as fast as possible.

Same thing happened with my other brother, in a different circumstance. And me.

I don't think the programs work. I don't think the people being paid to do this shit actually care about what they're doing. But that's my experience. And you can keep saying I didn't read the article all you want.

But, in my opinion, taking a kid out of his comfort zone when this big scary shit happens is not going to help. And a 12 week program is only the start of what this kid needs.

Just my opinion. You can take it or leave it as you please.
Weevil-Infested Badfun Wrongsex Referee From The 9th Earth
Slick and Deranged Wombat of Manhood Questioning
Hulking Dormouse of Lust and DESPAIR™
Gatling Geyser of Rainbow AIDS

"The only way we can ever change anything is to look in the mirror and find no enemy." - Akala  'Find No Enemy'.

Roly Poly Oly-Garch

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 28, 2011, 09:43:26 PM
Quote from: Nigel on November 28, 2011, 09:42:26 PM
Wow, I am very torn.

It reminds me of the cases recently where people were convicted and imprisoned for not getting medical help for their children because it was against their religion.

Slippery slope, yes. But I am torn. My eight-year-old weighs about 60 pounds. 200 lbs on an 8 year old is insane, and the child has a life-threatening medical problem as a result of his severe obesity. At what point should an agency try to intervene? Where do they draw the line? It seems like the medical condition is where they drew the line, and I think that may be a valid place for it.

Yeah, I see your point, but it makes me really uncomfortable.

This one, I don't like.

Read the original article to get a little more information and it just smacks of "making an example of". Can you remove a kid for being dangerously fat and the parents not having it together to do anything about it? Yes. This just doesn't look exactly that way.

The kid was losing weight, doing well, then shot up "rapidly". Not sure what rapidly means but if he's that big, it's not inconceivable for him to tack on 10-20 pounds over the course of a month without it being a sign that the parents have completely fallen off the program. And what is the state spending on foster care? Obviously, Mom has some serious ignorance obstacles to overcome, and something a little bit more intense then weekly group meetings are probably called for. The last few lines in the original article said that the foster parent is having trouble keeping up with the meetings and all the care the kid needs so the state's looking at providing her some extra assistance. That just sits, very, very wrong.

Too much experience around the foster care system to think that anything short of life or death makes that a good alternative. I've even helped friends emancipate because making their way at 15 on their own is wiser than subjecting them to the wide variety of horrors foster-care offers. Until all other options were exhausted, I just can't see how this is in any way good for that kid.
Back to the fecal matter in the pool

The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: NoLeDeMiel on November 29, 2011, 07:21:01 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 28, 2011, 09:43:26 PM
Quote from: Nigel on November 28, 2011, 09:42:26 PM
Wow, I am very torn.

It reminds me of the cases recently where people were convicted and imprisoned for not getting medical help for their children because it was against their religion.

Slippery slope, yes. But I am torn. My eight-year-old weighs about 60 pounds. 200 lbs on an 8 year old is insane, and the child has a life-threatening medical problem as a result of his severe obesity. At what point should an agency try to intervene? Where do they draw the line? It seems like the medical condition is where they drew the line, and I think that may be a valid place for it.

Yeah, I see your point, but it makes me really uncomfortable.

This one, I don't like.

Read the original article to get a little more information and it just smacks of "making an example of". Can you remove a kid for being dangerously fat and the parents not having it together to do anything about it? Yes. This just doesn't look exactly that way.

The kid was losing weight, doing well, then shot up "rapidly". Not sure what rapidly means but if he's that big, it's not inconceivable for him to tack on 10-20 pounds over the course of a month without it being a sign that the parents have completely fallen off the program. And what is the state spending on foster care? Obviously, Mom has some serious ignorance obstacles to overcome, and something a little bit more intense then weekly group meetings are probably called for. The last few lines in the original article said that the foster parent is having trouble keeping up with the meetings and all the care the kid needs so the state's looking at providing her some extra assistance. That just sits, very, very wrong.

Too much experience around the foster care system to think that anything short of life or death makes that a good alternative. I've even helped friends emancipate because making their way at 15 on their own is wiser than subjecting them to the wide variety of horrors foster-care offers. Until all other options were exhausted, I just can't see how this is in any way good for that kid.

My brother's ex-wife spent a lot of time and effort trying to make her kids fat.  No shit.  Her family had also done this to her brother.

Because it's nice if the Italian son stays with mommy and daddy forever, right?

Foster homes are frequently nightmares, but this kid is on the fast track for being dead by 30 at the outside.  My discomfort doesn't stem from the foster care angle, but from the idea that the state can interfere with the family at any level it sees fit.
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"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Jenne

Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on November 29, 2011, 07:20:26 PM
http://www.uhhospitals.org/rainbowchildren/ourservices/divisionofendocrinologymetabolism/tabid/466/healthykidshealthyweight.aspx

Here's the low-down on the program they put the kid in. I like that it addresses the entire family and gives them access to dietitians and exercise specialists. I think it would be more effective if the core program lasted longer than 12 weeks.

My brother's heart blew up when he was a kid. He got a pacemaker and a defibrillator when he was around 18. He was so massive and overweight, 6'0'' and 400+ lbs that his heart couldn't take it. He couldn't sleep, couldn't breathe well, and couldn't get around too great.

No one seemed to really care about him or his issues, or what was going on in our home. They just went through the motions and shoved him off their caseload as fast as possible.

Same thing happened with my other brother, in a different circumstance. And me.

I don't think the programs work. I don't think the people being paid to do this shit actually care about what they're doing. But that's my experience. And you can keep saying I didn't read the article all you want.

But, in my opinion, taking a kid out of his comfort zone when this big scary shit happens is not going to help. And a 12 week program is only the start of what this kid needs.

Just my opinion. You can take it or leave it as you please.

Sometimes comfort zones are not what we need to be healthy or to survive.  Comfort zones are often what get us locked up, hospitalized and on the fastrack to getting dead, just saying.  That alone is not reason enough to not intervene if necessary.

Your experiences seem to color the effectiveness of this sort of shit, so I'll leave you alone on those.  Your interaction with these types of individuals seems to have tempered where you come from in your estimation of the efficacy for others.  I totally get that, and see it often in other avenues that are just as touchy.

Be that as it may, I still see no overstepping by these guys, not if their first set up was to give him a program to follow.  Also--which is it, the people/programs don't work, or they need to go on longer?  You are confusing me with your points.

Jenne

Quote from: NoLeDeMiel on November 29, 2011, 07:21:01 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 28, 2011, 09:43:26 PM
Quote from: Nigel on November 28, 2011, 09:42:26 PM
Wow, I am very torn.

It reminds me of the cases recently where people were convicted and imprisoned for not getting medical help for their children because it was against their religion.

Slippery slope, yes. But I am torn. My eight-year-old weighs about 60 pounds. 200 lbs on an 8 year old is insane, and the child has a life-threatening medical problem as a result of his severe obesity. At what point should an agency try to intervene? Where do they draw the line? It seems like the medical condition is where they drew the line, and I think that may be a valid place for it.

Yeah, I see your point, but it makes me really uncomfortable.

This one, I don't like.

Read the original article to get a little more information and it just smacks of "making an example of". Can you remove a kid for being dangerously fat and the parents not having it together to do anything about it? Yes. This just doesn't look exactly that way.

The kid was losing weight, doing well, then shot up "rapidly". Not sure what rapidly means but if he's that big, it's not inconceivable for him to tack on 10-20 pounds over the course of a month without it being a sign that the parents have completely fallen off the program. And what is the state spending on foster care? Obviously, Mom has some serious ignorance obstacles to overcome, and something a little bit more intense then weekly group meetings are probably called for. The last few lines in the original article said that the foster parent is having trouble keeping up with the meetings and all the care the kid needs so the state's looking at providing her some extra assistance. That just sits, very, very wrong.

Too much experience around the foster care system to think that anything short of life or death makes that a good alternative. I've even helped friends emancipate because making their way at 15 on their own is wiser than subjecting them to the wide variety of horrors foster-care offers. Until all other options were exhausted, I just can't see how this is in any way good for that kid.

Again, taking him out of the home wasn't their first step in getting him help, it was just the latest. 

Also, what's your degree in, again?  Do you have experience in biology and pediatrics?  Do tell.

Lastly, what next step would you like to see, then?  In-home therapy?  Big brother watching the mom make her meals?  What?  What can be done, then?

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

Quote from: Jenne on November 29, 2011, 07:10:26 PM
Quote from: Nigel on November 29, 2011, 07:00:53 PM
Quote from: Science me, babby on November 29, 2011, 09:30:19 AM
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on November 29, 2011, 04:06:08 AM
I think taking the kid is too extreme, without more input pertaining to the parent's willful neglect and/or abuse. There should be some sort of mandatory meeting with a pediatrician and/or nutritionist or something. Weekly, if possible. But taking the kid . . . I don't think that's going to help him at all. Even if he loses weight, his head is going to be all fucked up because of this.

Yeah.  "YOU CAN'T LIVE WITH YOUR FAMILY ANYMORE BECAUSE YOU'RE TOO FAT."  How's that for a setup for a lifetime of eating disorders?

I'm not saying that taking the kid from his family was the right thing to do, but from a medical perspective it appears to be "lose weight or die", and after a YEAR he had only lost a few pounds, and then gained them back again. And was gaining additional weight.

I swear that if one more person offers an opinion without reading the fucking article I'm going to slap them in the eyes with my dick.

I know what it is, Nigel--it's the fear that taking the kid away is worse than letting him rot in his natural state with those who birthed him.

It's a good fear to have.  However, I think in this case, it might be misplaced.  I see a system that has tried to get a family to comply, not a system that is geared to abuse its authority outright.

Taking a child from their family is very extreme. However, it is completely, painfully clear (especially if you read other articles about this) that the parents had ample time, opportunity, and assistance to help their son, and failed to do so. The county wasn't even involved, from what I can tell, until the kid started rapidly gaining back the weight he had lost. The mother tries to blame genetics because both she and the father are overweight... that doesn't hold a lot of water. The kid DID lose weight last year, so that demonstrates that it's probably not a medical condition.

My ex's family is definitely predisposed to chubbiness, which I am pretty sure is largely because they are THE least active people I have ever known. Wonderful people, but absurdly sedentary, with an apparent aversion to moving around, and a tendency toward gluttony. My ex tried to tell me that he was just genetically fat, and I couldn't help laughing; he might be genetically lazy and gluttonous, though. My oldest daughter also hates activity and loves food, and she'd probably be severely overweight instead of just slightly chubby if I didn't keep a pantry full of healthy, boring snacks, cook healthy meals, and make her walk everywhere. The other two are athletic little rails.

One of the stupidest quotes in that whole article is "It's a lifestyle change and they are trying to make it seem like I am not embracing that. It is very hard, but I am trying."

BULL FUCKING SHIT.

It's NOT "HARD", YOU ARE JUST A LAZY, SPOILED ASSHOLE. "Hard" is working as a longshoreman or running a marathon or climbing a mountain or competing in a triathalon. "Hard" is raising kids alone in a city with one of the highest cost of living ratios and highest unemployment rates in the country without a formal education or any marketable job skills. "Hard" is living under a bridge because you couldn't make your house payments and rents are higher than your mortgage was.

Changing your fucking grocery shopping and cooking habits and going for a walk once a day is NOT FUCKING "HARD". And one year is ample time to ease into it. Stop buying junk food, you fat, stupid, lazy fuck.

"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


Jenne


Mesozoic Mister Nigel

Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on November 29, 2011, 07:20:26 PM
http://www.uhhospitals.org/rainbowchildren/ourservices/divisionofendocrinologymetabolism/tabid/466/healthykidshealthyweight.aspx

Here's the low-down on the program they put the kid in. I like that it addresses the entire family and gives them access to dietitians and exercise specialists. I think it would be more effective if the core program lasted longer than 12 weeks.

My brother's heart blew up when he was a kid. He got a pacemaker and a defibrillator when he was around 18. He was so massive and overweight, 6'0'' and 400+ lbs that his heart couldn't take it. He couldn't sleep, couldn't breathe well, and couldn't get around too great.

No one seemed to really care about him or his issues, or what was going on in our home. They just went through the motions and shoved him off their caseload as fast as possible.

Same thing happened with my other brother, in a different circumstance. And me.

I don't think the programs work. I don't think the people being paid to do this shit actually care about what they're doing. But that's my experience. And you can keep saying I didn't read the article all you want.

But, in my opinion, taking a kid out of his comfort zone when this big scary shit happens is not going to help. And a 12 week program is only the start of what this kid needs.

Just my opinion. You can take it or leave it as you please.

It's not because the programs are ineffective, it's because your parents are lazy assholes. All the "programs" in the world won't do shit if the parents won't stop neglecting/abusing their kids. There is a fucking element of responsibility, here.
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."