Prostitution & feminism

[hirley0]

15:20 8 EB

[Placid Dingo]

I asked my kids if they knew what feminism was. Not one knew. I think a few said it was being feminine like a woman.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

This chick has some things to say about feminism: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnJxqRLg9x0&feature=youtube_gdata_player

She rules.

[hirley0]

I asked my kids if they knew what feminism was. Not one knew. I think a few said it was being feminine like a woman.

9 BEN

his chick ... he rules.

[hirley0]

13 CABAN 0030-1 IN GENERAL? the Tree/Tea Group is 3gals
Link later maybe {see givingTREE) However Leader 1(V) was out {cold)?
leaving 2 to play the (¢) Game "TABLE" | I dont ScrabbeL, i DimE | & stay W
?(E} photos Maybe late today | &I avoid screaming Kids ASAP 2(VC)3(U)
12 CIB \ 2:10-2:40 thUS PH2 WAS ADDED to the Ni#111
string AS something to do awaiting the {OH never mind)  ?40
11 Men / Mondays Navy ? so WHAT? should a Wise One do
on a day such as today? sped a 1/4 hour explaining that it IS Laundery
day. 2 that i do need a Lawndress 3 AM willing to pay her money to
work at it. It is not hard work like scrubbing walls or mapping floors.
Easy Job take one apple box of dirty close 6 stories down to the
machines in the basement, put in the detergent, add the material,
deposit 5 Quarters, press HOT NORMAL, & return. about 10 min,
Then 1/2 hour later move the wash to dryer | another +5 1/4's |
wait 1 Hr, and return the warm cloths back to the fifth. Why the
Reluctance? Anyway?/? 
Sunday 10 Ix {jaguar) Moon enters Aquarius
Maroon: Time to spend much, MUCH more time in this thread
Upon my return from the Saint F, the gal sitting beside the building looks up
at me, I had seen her sitting there head down (sort of dispondent looking}?
Thus as she looked up, i vocalized my LiNE, AM hiring: she smiled & i
approached 1/2 way and handed her one of those fake gold dollors
(picture of a US President} she said "O", i eXXXplained the deal was
$5U$ for 1/2 hour of house cleaning. | Whitch is my LiNE. | she looked
at me, {typical), & said something like FOR WHAT, cleaning! the sower
wall? she thought about that a minute & told me she was waiting for
her boy friend.  end of report.
'Poise for a minute that ten females are ask the same question?
$5/.5Hr
over a period of 7 months | what % of the time is the reply
A. Am waiting for Boy Friend
B. Busy, check back in 1/2 hr
C: Cant now maybe later
D! Don't bug me MF
E]
F_

[hirley0]

1 ETZNAB  v READ DOWN v
thUS My entry in the COPyLeft
Left Lingering COnCerns About CONplyING.
THUS2.40 at this tme 00:40 i'LL ATTemtp to find?
Reply #206: Yesterday at 07:58:44 PM

Spider ?/?

[Pope Pixie Pickle]

This chick has some things to say about feminism: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnJxqRLg9x0&feature=youtube_gdata_player

She rules.

I watched those and a load of other blogs on her channel. Now teevee and movies make me mad as all hell.

[trippinprincezz13]

This chick has some things to say about feminism: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnJxqRLg9x0&feature=youtube_gdata_player

She rules.

Wow, that was a great clip. I admit I've always tended to be in the "equal rights, but not a feminist" camp because of the extremist connotations attached to it. It's funny too, because I really try not to let my perceptions of a group  be colored by extremists that associate themselves with that label, since I know there are going be "bad apples" in any group of people you lump together. But, clearly I still have some rearranging to do.

[moose]

I support legalization of prostitution from a civil liberties and public health perspective but a friend of mine once brought up the counter argument that the conditions that may drive some women to prostitution are abhorrent and exploitative, but I wonder if that's the result of the black market generally. Also prostitution is not an exclusively female enterprise, I wonder if a more matriarchal society would see a higher proportion of male prostitutes? Legalizing prostitution, in my opinion, may very well reduce the detrimental effects that I think may stem largely from the practice's status as a criminalized occupation. But note that long after the legalization of prostitution women will still be exploited in advertising and in patriarchal discourse.

[Doktor Howl]

I support legalization of prostitution from a civil liberties and public health perspective but a friend of mine once brought up the counter argument that the conditions that may drive some women to prostitution are abhorrent and exploitative, but I wonder if that's the result of the black market generally. Also prostitution is not an exclusively female enterprise, I wonder if a more matriarchal society would see a higher proportion of male prostitutes? Legalizing prostitution, in my opinion, may very well reduce the detrimental effects that I think may stem largely from the practice's status as a criminalized occupation. But note that long after the legalization of prostitution women will still be exploited in advertising and in patriarchal discourse.

People are not a product.  Prostitution makes people a commodity.  Legalizing people makes people legally a commidity.

[Q. G. Pennyworth]

I support legalization of prostitution from a civil liberties and public health perspective but a friend of mine once brought up the counter argument that the conditions that may drive some women to prostitution are abhorrent and exploitative, but I wonder if that's the result of the black market generally. Also prostitution is not an exclusively female enterprise, I wonder if a more matriarchal society would see a higher proportion of male prostitutes? Legalizing prostitution, in my opinion, may very well reduce the detrimental effects that I think may stem largely from the practice's status as a criminalized occupation. But note that long after the legalization of prostitution women will still be exploited in advertising and in patriarchal discourse.

People are not a product.  Prostitution makes people a commodity.  Legalizing people makes people legally a commidity.

Prostitution is a service. It's a service that a lot of people find distasteful, and can be harmful for the people who provide it. It's not significantly more physically harmful for the people providing the service than coal mining or crab fishing, and with proper regulation in place could be safer than either. The emotional and spiritual damage is a significant factor, but I don't think it's significantly worse than what nurses and therapists risk.* It's not a glamorous job: it's fucking dangerous, the retirement package is atrocious, the benefits are non-existent, and the social stigma is huge. It's still not the same as buying someone.

*QG shared some time in a psych ward with a nurse who burned out

[Doktor Howl]

The emotional and spiritual damage is a significant factor, but I don't think it's significantly worse than what nurses and therapists risk.*

I have met many prostitutes, back in my old life as a mook.  Fact is, the very service they offer robs them of their humanity.  By the time I saw them, they were a product.

[BadBeast]

I support legalization of prostitution from a civil liberties and public health perspective but a friend of mine once brought up the counter argument that the conditions that may drive some women to prostitution are abhorrent and exploitative, but I wonder if that's the result of the black market generally. Also prostitution is not an exclusively female enterprise, I wonder if a more matriarchal society would see a higher proportion of male prostitutes? Legalizing prostitution, in my opinion, may very well reduce the detrimental effects that I think may stem largely from the practice's status as a criminalized occupation. But note that long after the legalization of prostitution women will still be exploited in advertising and in patriarchal discourse.

People are not a product.  Prostitution makes people a commodity.  Legalizing people makes people legally a commidity.

All jobs make people a commodity. Skilled jobs especially.

[Doktor Howl]

I support legalization of prostitution from a civil liberties and public health perspective but a friend of mine once brought up the counter argument that the conditions that may drive some women to prostitution are abhorrent and exploitative, but I wonder if that's the result of the black market generally. Also prostitution is not an exclusively female enterprise, I wonder if a more matriarchal society would see a higher proportion of male prostitutes? Legalizing prostitution, in my opinion, may very well reduce the detrimental effects that I think may stem largely from the practice's status as a criminalized occupation. But note that long after the legalization of prostitution women will still be exploited in advertising and in patriarchal discourse.

People are not a product.  Prostitution makes people a commodity.  Legalizing people makes people legally a commidity.

All jobs make people a commodity. Skilled jobs especially.

Not in the same manner.  A millwright doesn't get burned out the way a prostitute does, because a millwright is valued on skill and brains, not being a piece of meat to fuck.

[moose]

Yeah that's where my last conversation about this went. I'm sensitive to the point. If it's inevitably/inherently exploitative and dehumanizing then of course it's no good. I'm not convinced that this is the case, but I'm receptive to the point. I still wonder how much of this outlook is due to our particular historical perspective, our views of how relationships should work, and how labor should work. Agreed, people aren't a product. Prostitution needn't make people a commodity exactly, though that's one way to view it. It could also be considered a service. Think of a model--if a magazine hires a model for an ad, they're not really buying the person, they're paying them to pose. If you pay a prostitute, you're not buying them, you're buying sex, and maybe it's by the act, maybe it's by the hour, I don't know how this works, but at the end of the day, everybody goes home. Now if there's a real ethical dimension to this, and there are certain essential characteristics to interpersonal relationships that cause all prostitutes to be exploited and all their clients to be exploiters, that's one thing, but I'm skeptical of essentialism. It's one thing to say it's exploitative given a certain social and historical framework, and another to say that it is always and invariably the way things will be, across all cultures and at all places and times. A prostitute needn't be viewed as an object. I heard on NPR a few weeks ago a report about a prostitute whose clients were all either terminally ill or seriously disabled people, and sometimes she'd just go help them around the house, sometimes she'd just sleep next to them, sometimes she'd have sex with them. I can imagine that there are possible situations and contexts where this trade is respected and legitimatized. But again, these are the objections that really got me thinking, shit, maybe I'm completely wrong and this is an inherently unethical practice. I just always thought the criticism of prostitution stemmed from the Judeo-Christian outlook that saw women as property of husbands or male relatives, rather than agents endowed with self-ownership. So these concerns about exploitation really strike me, because they actually make the objection to the practice seem relevant again.