Prostitution & feminism

[BadBeast]

Prostitution was never meant to be a profession, it was originally an act of service to deity. A 2 year service as a Temple prostitute was like doing a term in the Peace Corp. Non exploitative, or co-ercive. A Holy vocation.

Prostitution was never "The first profession" at all. Pimping was. The suppression of Matriarchy in the Holy Temples, replacement with corrupt Priests. Moneychangers in the Temple?       

[El Sjaako]

This chick has some things to say about feminism: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnJxqRLg9x0&feature=youtube_gdata_player

She rules.

From that video

The girls are influenced by femme fatales malicious rhetoric to see benign, routine, everyday things as a conspiracy against women and against them personally. The writers of the Powerpuff girls have carefully created a world without gender oppression so that they can have the girls see gender oppression where none exists

She then goes on about Family Guy and Southpark. It seems a little ironic, because on Family Guy and Southpark all groups get pissed on. It is, basically, a benign, routine, everyday thing on this show that a group gets made fun of and their views misrepresented.

If her point is that TV shows a horrible, broken, distorted view of feminism, then that's a fair point. But TV shows a horrible, broken, distorted view of everything.

I agree that "I agree in equal rights, but I'm not a feminist" is a horrible use of the word feminist, but I can understand them trying to distance themselves from the nutcases. But I don't think this meaning comes from TV.

[Doktor Howl]

I agree that "I agree in equal rights, but I'm not a feminist" is a horrible use of the word feminist, but I can understand them trying to distance themselves from the nutcases. But I don't think this meaning comes from TV.

No, it comes from people who should know better, but believe the right wing nutjob propaganda anyway.

[El Sjaako]

I agree that "I agree in equal rights, but I'm not a feminist" is a horrible use of the word feminist, but I can understand them trying to distance themselves from the nutcases. But I don't think this meaning comes from TV.

No, it comes from people who should know better, but believe the right wing nutjob propaganda anyway.

It comes from a lot of places. For example: if you meet someone on the Internet that informs you that she is a feminist, it's usually one of the nutcases, and they'll probably tell you you should use S/he instead of he or something stupid like that. These people are also most likely to get on the news (read: fark.com) as feminists.

At some point in the past I actually bothered to do some reading about feminism, and these days the word just doesn't mean that much to me anymore. If someone where to say they are a feminist, I would simply ask what they meant with that.

To return to the original topic, my opinion:

The fact that a woman can choose to be a prostitute is empowering, just like any other job for uneducated women with few options would be. I think it is possible to have a decent life and be a prostitute, but only if prostitution is legal, and the woman isn't a slave to someone. I haven't heard of decent prostitution happening on a large scale, and implementing that (without the human trafficking and emotional abuse by pimps) seems like a really hard problem.

However, the right of a woman to sell whatever services she wants (as long as those services don't harm third parties etc.) should triumph over the government wanting to make it illegal, in my opinion.

[Doktor Howl]

I think it is possible to have a decent life and be a prostitute, but only if prostitution is legal, and the woman isn't a slave to someone.

1.  Upon what are you basing this opinion?

2.  It fucks male prostitutes up just as badly.

[El Sjaako]

I think it is possible to have a decent life and be a prostitute, but only if prostitution is legal, and the woman isn't a slave to someone.

1.  Upon what are you basing this opinion?

Not much personal experience, certainly. I saw a documentary once about American prostitutes and pimps. Most of the prostitutes were fucked up/whores, and all of the pimps were horrible people (and completely non feminist. Stuff like "They need me, they can't handle their own life, because they're just bitches.") But there was one brothel in Nevada that was run by an ex prostitute, and the prostitutes seemed pretty pleased over there. Maybe this was just in comparison to the other type of prostitution, but it looked good.

I also get this opinion from what I gather about dutch prostitution. Yes, like Trip said, most of it is fucked up. But there are some good stories. Dutch women that work a few hours a day, and then go home and take care of their children.

2.  It fucks male prostitutes up just as badly.

Good point. I don't know anything at all about male prostitution, so it's not something I feel able to comment on.

[Doktor Howl]

Not much personal experience, certainly. I saw a documentary once about American prostitutes and pimps.

Ah.

[El Sjaako]

Not much personal experience, certainly. I saw a documentary once about American prostitutes and pimps.

Ah.

Just to be clear, I don't mean prostitution being legal and woman not being slaves automatically makes it a proper business. In fact, I think even with those conditions it's hard to make work. But if those conditions aren't met, there is no chance of it going well.

[Q. G. Pennyworth]

I have a friend who worked as a male prostitute for a short period, and it did not poison his soul. The fact that he was very much in control of the situation at the time and is emphatically "sex positive" probably contributed a lot to that. Regardless, I'm not really going to accept absolutes because I've met an exception, however rare they might be.

[bds]

It comes from a lot of places. For example: if you meet someone on the Internet that informs you that she is a feminist, it's usually one of the nutcases, and they'll probably tell you you should use S/he instead of he or something stupid like that. These people are also most likely to get on the news (read: fark.com) as feminists.

I don't see how using non-gender specific pronouns is stupid. enlighten me?

[El Sjaako]

It comes from a lot of places. For example: if you meet someone on the Internet that informs you that she is a feminist, it's usually one of the nutcases, and they'll probably tell you you should use S/he instead of he or something stupid like that. These people are also most likely to get on the news (read: fark.com) as feminists.

I don't see how using non-gender specific pronouns is stupid. enlighten me?

Using them is not stupid at all. That's very much a good choice you, as author, can make.

But just using he or she is also a good choice. Any reader will still understand, and she will most likely not be offended. It's perfectly clear what the author means. In fact, he can use the different genders to make whatever he is saying more clear to her.

Maybe that's not a good example. But don't think using he (or, alternatively, she) does anyone any harm, and it feels less forced. Calling people on their choice of pronouns seems "not done" (stupid is probably the wrong adjective.)

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I am good friends with a woman and know another who were once prostitutes. In both cases, they consider it something that they did in order to survive, are glad to have survived, and never, ever, want their daughters to have to experience.

I was a phone sex girl, and even that ate at me. Perhaps worse, it instilled in me a contempt of and pity for men that was difficult to outgrow. 

[Freeky]

I have a friend who worked as a male prostitute for a short period, and it did not poison his soul. The fact that he was very much in control of the situation at the time and is emphatically "sex positive" probably contributed a lot to that. Regardless, I'm not really going to accept absolutes because I've met an exception, however rare they might be.

Also, "short period of time."  It isn't like it happens overnight.

My bestie has worked in the sex industry, doing porn.  She told me that no matter what, she'd never ever go back to doing it, because it was horrible and desensitizing, and she refused to do straight porn because she could live without vaginas, but not without dicks.  She's also been a prostitute because it was either that or she and her little girl starve.  She never did much time as either, because knew if she did, she'd stop being a person.

[hirley0]

I have a friend who | might be.

3 AHAU BY POST TIME 23:23-00:00 {MAYBE)
i dont really have many dreams of this type : thus have little experiance
nor do i know exactly WHY the dream ocured? perhaps it was a result of
the lady in the wheel chair. On our way back from Safeway, {Jefferson St)
{{Museum) there was a girl in a wheel chair, sobbing to to the door gal &
guy at the N. YW door. Where the street girls {Homless) go to spend the
night out of the cold, rain, wind. It was all three. As i returned going to
the corner of SW MAIN  AND TENTH,  i thought i would offer her an orange
to change the scene to something more positive than the plaintiff wails in
progress. She did not want an Orange. she continued her wailing : you
people. ( i guess there is no way at the Y to provide acomadasion  to
non stair climbers. Really a rather pathetic scene i would rather not see.
So later this night "I HAD A DREAM" a short fat girl was here in the Apt
whom i had aperently offered a place to spend the night OUT of the Rain
She was very short, & FAT and when the hugging scene occured i had
to get down on my knees just to equalize the situation. She began very
quickly to warm in a rapid manner. About the there was some noise at
the door so i got up to see what was the matter. Otside the door were
about a half dozen young boys, about her age {teen agers) pulling
pranks & carring on next door (where Mr. was moving out} Suddenly i
was engaged in an arms struggle with one, and thus disposed the
rest of the troup entered the apartment, To take up where they had
left off, as i assume the routine was well rehearsed to a fine preformance
I awoke? OR that dream ended. I do NOT usually REMember dreams,
OR maybe i should refer to these times as night Mayors. (oh well} time
passes, a other dream took the 1st dreams place? Well i guess it was
the 1st one. only remember two. the second one was about Music,
lemme call it a theory. A musical person of my aquaintance was there
a long 2x6 slopped down from a high railing into the sea below. the
musician had devised a scale _/ the first movement of which was the
bent spoon transition? he had walked down to the sea on the narrow
plank  & when he saw me at the top he began to assend to explain
the first note pair | I dcided to meet him 1/2 way and began my
decent. about 1/5 down the beam tipped, he struggled I sat down
the beam leveld he lost ballance and fell to the rocks at sea edge Ntbc 0:47

[hirley0]

Reply #166: Yesterday at 01:36:47 AM  yeah?YEAH
Just trying to find my position
it appears to me i skipped yesterday | oh no i see |
there exists today the 1 CAUAC error | that is incorrect # | it was 2
today gREN being 3 AHAU TBC BELOW {MAYBE 3PST 2:36B

2:59? 1ST OFF?  not exactly for legalized, pro compulsary.
Why: Because t is my opinion that earth is about to enter into a Religious Zone
A time on Earth of great suffering & calamities | once in 100 year events
Quakes Floods "Liquafaction. in other words economic hard time
to reduce the effects "compulsary" P | provided the age limits are known
and length of serving also Now back to the time Question Just a min
3:04myT Ok so thinking something fisshy was taking place My Time i
http://tycho.usno.navy.mil/simpletime.html checked simple time
it stopped counting for a few seconds at 6 so will recheck it again
exactly why simple time stopped i donno ok according to the navy my
clock since yesterday was reset 1 min fast THUS considering the count paused
at six i will check a third  & reset Me ok at 3:12 i was set to navy however
it is clear to me that Earth clocks Mine the board & simple are all being foxed
about & thier4 not to be believed. 3:15:00 My t may = 3:14:25B & maybe not

Do science. Sell your body for 30 days. Try to stay objective. See if the idea of idealized prostitution matches the reality of prostitution. And you even get a head start, you have tha advantage of choosing your tricks. Please tell me after 30 days if you feel that selling your body for physical sex doesn't affect your psyche.

1 Cauac | the Moon was seen at 6pm 2/23 from the corner of SW 14th
& Jefferson. Appearing as a 2 day old sliver, from behind a small cloud.
1 day & 1/2TBD west of bright Venus etc. thank you Moon: Tbc