Prostitution & feminism

[The Wizard Joseph]

Prostitution pretty much cant be empowering in the world we live in.

Some of the stories of the women of the temple of Aphrodite and the like from way back do sound empowering but they weren't just selling their bodies, they were selling communion with their god which they could deny to any man they didn't like, and that's an incredible level of power, to be able to deny someone the worship of their god.

Its impossible to see that level of respect placed on it in the western world.

Funny how the dominant worldview changes things huh?  A society of people with healthy, satisfying sex lives, or better yet blossoming relationships, can become difficult to manipulate..  Maybe that's why our current world order has spent so much effort (too often literally) demonizing sexuality.  It's an ancient control game. 

There's a repression in the western world that has seeped into the other parts.  The repression of sex makes possible the mechanization of humanity.  It is one of our strongest, wildest drives and some fools tried to harness it in clean and precise fashion.  It just doesn't work that way.  When that mistake was finally realized, the game became about leading us along by luring our desires.  This still requires that satisfaction always seem to be just barely beyond reach, but ways to reach it constantly hinted at. 

I think that the respect can still be gotten back sir.  The temple just has to be adapted to the newfangled devices we use and packaged in a way that can compete with the market.  I'm working on it.. or I'm gonna try something anyway.

Purely anecdotal, but I have been friends with one hooker.  When I first knew her she was someone with a lot of issues, but she did honestly enjoy the job.  She really enjoyed sex and didn't connect it with that emotional connection that is so important for so many people.  She was young though (16) and I didn't see her again for a few years, when I did again, fairly briefly, 3 years later she looked unhealthy and seemed mentally disconnected.  she hadn't been a heavy drug user when I first knew her, I don't know if she was or not when I saw her again but she certainly looked it.  She didn't have much time to talk because she was with a client who decided it was time to go somewhere more private but it definitely seemed to me that the life had taken a hard toll on her.

She was definitely an economy class hooker, not an upscale escort, but more of the barfly sort than a streetwalker, although she solicited at all ages venues rather than bars.

What I said.  The porn princess effect makes no exceptions.

Babylon did it ever occur to you that this 16 year old child you call "friend" needed to be given better guidance and steered away from that "life path?"  You're just a great fucking friend aren't you?  Go your way, fuck off, and die.
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I think that Nigel, Jenne, and others have it right to judge men with a taste for prostitutes unworthy.  It's an indicator of weakness, and it would seem to me that weakness is the last thing a stressed and busy person needs in a partner.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Babylon did it ever occur to you that this 16 year old child you call "friend" needed to be given better guidance and steered away from that "life path?"  You're just a great fucking friend aren't you?  Go your way, fuck off, and die.

I was sort of thinking the same thing. 

[BabylonHoruv]

Babylon did it ever occur to you that this 16 year old child you call "friend" needed to be given better guidance and steered away from that "life path?"  You're just a great fucking friend aren't you?  Go your way, fuck off, and die.
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I think that Nigel, Jenne, and others have it right to judge men with a taste for prostitutes unworthy.  It's an indicator of weakness, and it would seem to me that weakness is the last thing a stressed and busy person needs in a partner.

I was in a worse space than her at that point.  Drinking cough syrup regularly, suicidal, and about to be institutionalized.  I wasn't really able to pull anyone out of anything.  If I were to encounter someone in a similar situation now I'd try to offer useful mature guidance, at that point I had none to offer.

Also, as I said, she wasn't in that bad of a space when she was 16.  She enjoyed her work and was generally doing pretty well.  She was doing much worse 3 years later, and I was in a space where I might have had some useful guidance to offer, unfortunately I only saw her long enough for a "hi how have you been?"  "It's complicated, I need to go fuck this person now" "oh, ok, well bye"

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I was in a worse space than her at that point. 

No, you weren't.

[BabylonHoruv]

I was in a worse space than her at that point. 

No, you weren't.

Maybe not.  Not having walked in her shoes I'm not qualified to judge.  However she wasn't a heavy drug user and I was.  She was hooking by choice and had a place to sleep, food to eat, and clean clothes to wear.  I was squatting and eating at soup kitchens and wearing the same clothes for weeks at a time.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

Purely anecdotal, but I have been friends with one hooker.  When I first knew her she was someone with a lot of issues, but she did honestly enjoy the job.  She really enjoyed sex and didn't connect it with that emotional connection that is so important for so many people.  She was young though (16) and I didn't see her again for a few years, when I did again, fairly briefly, 3 years later she looked unhealthy and seemed mentally disconnected.  she hadn't been a heavy drug user when I first knew her, I don't know if she was or not when I saw her again but she certainly looked it.  She didn't have much time to talk because she was with a client who decided it was time to go somewhere more private but it definitely seemed to me that the life had taken a hard toll on her.

She was definitely an economy class hooker, not an upscale escort, but more of the barfly sort than a streetwalker, although she solicited at all ages venues rather than bars.

Prostitution, especially in those cases where a person has to do it to live, is rape. When the only option other than fucking some disgusting old man and being considered some kind of subhuman piece of garbage, is sleeping on pavement in the winter and starving, it's really no different than a knife to the throat.

As far her being mentally disconnected, http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/recovering-trauma/201012/trauma-and-dissociation

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I was in a worse space than her at that point. 

No, you weren't.

Maybe not.  Not having walked in her shoes I'm not qualified to judge.  However she wasn't a heavy drug user and I was.  She was hooking by choice and had a place to sleep, food to eat, and clean clothes to wear.  I was squatting and eating at soup kitchens and wearing the same clothes for weeks at a time.

How many times did you suck dick for drugs?

[BabylonHoruv]

I was in a worse space than her at that point. 

No, you weren't.

Maybe not.  Not having walked in her shoes I'm not qualified to judge.  However she wasn't a heavy drug user and I was.  She was hooking by choice and had a place to sleep, food to eat, and clean clothes to wear.  I was squatting and eating at soup kitchens and wearing the same clothes for weeks at a time.

How many times did you suck dick for drugs?

I never did.  I did once in a situation that involved having a place to sleep for a while, but it wasn't an explicit trade.  I imagine she did, I never asked, but she didn't have to.  She lived with her parents still and had enough spending money just from them to support what little drug use she did.

I'm fairly sure the main reason she hooked was because she enjoyed it, because she didn't charge much.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

And I'm agreeing with Nigel on this because a)Guys who are actually desirable gnerally don't have to pay for sex. Once or twice when they're young to see what it's like, fine. More than that, forget it. b)Part of what a prostitute is paid to do is GO AWAY after. Doesn't say much for the relationship potential of the man. c)What kind of man picks up a runaway or a junkie and takes advantage of their desperate crappy position in order to get a cheap blowjob?

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I never did. 

Then you weren't in a worse spot than her.

[BabylonHoruv]

I never did. 

Then you weren't in a worse spot than her.

I think you are over-rating the awfulness of sucking dick in exchange for drugs and/or cash. 

Not saying it's a good space to be in, but I do think it's better than being a homeless suicidal druggie.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

I never did.  I did once in a situation that involved having a place to sleep for a while, but it wasn't an explicit trade.  I imagine she did, I never asked, but she didn't have to.  She lived with her parents still and had enough spending money just from them to support what little drug use she did.

I'm fairly sure the main reason she hooked was because she enjoyed it, because she didn't charge much.

No 16 year old girl enjoys sucking off old perverts, you fucking moron.

There was something wrong at that house. Rape, abuse, something.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

I never did.  

Then you weren't in a worse spot than her.

I think you are over-rating the awfulness of sucking dick in exchange for drugs and/or cash.  

Not saying it's a good space to be in, but I do think it's better than being a homeless suicidal self-absorbed, emo druggie WHO THINKS TEENAGE GIRLS WHO HAVE TO SUCK DICK FOR MONEY HAVE IT BETTER THAN HE DOES.

FTFY

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I never did. 

Then you weren't in a worse spot than her.

I think you are over-rating the awfulness of sucking dick in exchange for drugs and/or cash. 

Not saying it's a good space to be in, but I do think it's better than being a homeless suicidal self-absorbed, emo druggie WHO THINKS TEENAGE GIRLS WHO HAVE TO SUCK DICK FOR MONEY HAVE IT BETTER THAN HE DOES.

KIDS IN AFRICA DON'T HAVE IT AS BAD AS BABYLON DID.   

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

I never did. 

Then you weren't in a worse spot than her.

I think you are over-rating the awfulness of sucking dick in exchange for drugs and/or cash. 

Not saying it's a good space to be in, but I do think it's better than being a homeless suicidal self-absorbed, emo druggie WHO THINKS TEENAGE GIRLS WHO HAVE TO SUCK DICK FOR MONEY HAVE IT BETTER THAN HE DOES.

KIDS IN AFRICA DON'T HAVE IT AS BAD AS BABYLON DID.   

MY HEART PUMPS PEANUT BUTTER FOR HIS PLIGHT