Khore in the Chapel Perilous

[The Good Reverend Roger]

For what it's worth, while we may use "Pinealist" as a taunt, it's really just another flavor of Discordia.  Problems usually arise because these forums are largely populated by people who tend (for the most part) to be more oriented towards pragmatism and rationality.  So you can only imagine what happens when the two try to communicate with each other.

To speak from my own experiences, The Chapel Perilous of Crowley and RAW is more like Polanski's Chinatown for me these days.  I have run into Choronzon when I was framing my experiences that way, but it really didn't serve my purposes, so I changed it.

I know nothing of any of this.  I do not even know what fnords are. 

[LMNO]

It's a car company, right?

[The Good Reverend Roger]

It's a car company, right?

Don't be silly.  It's a natural harbor in Norway.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Hey guys, have any of you ever heard about this wacky goddess called Eris?

[LMNO]

Isn't that just a dwarf planet in our solar system?

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Hey guys, have any of you ever heard about this wacky goddess called Eris?

I heard they named a planet after her.  No, really.  It's a small planet, but it's still a planet.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Hey guys, have any of you ever heard about this wacky goddess called Eris?

I heard they named a planet after her.  No, really.  It's a small planet, but it's still a planet.

Wow! The more you know!

I heard that there was something about a war, too. Ever heard anything about that? Something about an apple inscribed "To the prettiest one"?

That might be too obscure for this crowd though.

[LMNO]

No, that can't be right.  She's a cartoon character on Billy and Mandy.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Incidentally, what little sense I could make out of the OP was:

The world is really hard, and I cut myself when I contemplate it.  It hurts to think.  I am now channeling John Lennon AND Sinead O'Conner.  GENIUS IS PAIN!  GENIUS IS PAIN!  YOKO ONO IS A ROCK N ROLL GODDESS!  YOU KNOW WHY NOBODY LIKES HER?  BECAUSE SHE'S A WOMAN AND SHE'S ORIENTAL, THAT'S WHY!  AAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH!  PAUL WASN'T THE WALRUS, I WAS ACTUALLY THE WALRUS, I WAS ONLY SAYING THAT TO BE NICE AND I'M SICK OF GEORGE HARRISON AND ALL HIS HARE KRISHNA BULLSHIT!  FUCK YOUUUUUU!   Also, I almost killed myself once because of the hallucinations I suffered while trying to be the next Carlos Castanada.  Fnord.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

No, that can't be right.  She's a cartoon character on Billy and Mandy.

Ohhhhh, that must be where I heard about her! She seemed vaguely familiar.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Incidentally, what little sense I could make out of the OP was:

The world is really hard, and I cut myself when I contemplate it.  It hurts to think.  I am now channeling John Lennon AND Sinead O'Conner.  GENIUS IS PAIN!  GENIUS IS PAIN!  YOKO ONO IS A ROCK N ROLL GODDESS!  YOU KNOW WHY NOBODY LIKES HER?  BECAUSE SHE'S A WOMAN AND SHE'S ORIENTAL, THAT'S WHY!  AAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH!  PAUL WASN'T THE WALRUS, I WAS ACTUALLY THE WALRUS, I WAS ONLY SAYING THAT TO BE NICE AND I'M SICK OF GEORGE HARRISON AND ALL HIS HARE KRISHNA BULLSHIT!  FUCK YOUUUUUU!   Also, I almost killed myself once because of the hallucinations I suffered while trying to be the next Carlos Castanada.  Fnord.

Oh shit.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Incidentally, what little sense I could make out of the OP was:

The world is really hard, and I cut myself when I contemplate it.  It hurts to think.  I am now channeling John Lennon AND Sinead O'Conner.  GENIUS IS PAIN!  GENIUS IS PAIN!  YOKO ONO IS A ROCK N ROLL GODDESS!  YOU KNOW WHY NOBODY LIKES HER?  BECAUSE SHE'S A WOMAN AND SHE'S ORIENTAL, THAT'S WHY!  AAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH!  PAUL WASN'T THE WALRUS, I WAS ACTUALLY THE WALRUS, I WAS ONLY SAYING THAT TO BE NICE AND I'M SICK OF GEORGE HARRISON AND ALL HIS HARE KRISHNA BULLSHIT!  FUCK YOUUUUUU!   Also, I almost killed myself once because of the hallucinations I suffered while trying to be the next Carlos Castanada.  Fnord.

Oh shit.

wait..wait...

AND I'VE HAD IT UP TO HERE WITH MICK FUCKING JAGGER ALL HE EVER DID WAS COPY ME AND DANCE AROUND THE STAGE LIKE A FUCKING FAIRY AND BADFINGER IS BASICALLY ME WITHOUT THIS AWESOME FOREIGN ACCENT THE SKY IS BLUUUUUUE.  In addition, I am mentally unbalanced, which in some cultures makes me a wiseman, and you should all drop what you're doing and study at my feet because of hallucinations and Chorozon, which is apparently neither a Mexican breakfast dish nor an obscure sports term.  Fnord, I say, fnord.

[LMNO]

Chorozon, which is apparently neither a Mexican breakfast dish nor an obscure sports term.

[Mangrove]

Hey Khore,

I enjoyed your story about your journey through the chapel.

A few months ago, I decided to learn more about Aliester Crowley. I almost joined an OTO lodge in New York City... but my friend started getting really into it, and he creeped me out, so I decided to keep my distance. But as I understand it, that path will take you through the Abyss, make you face Choronzon -- and that's also the Chapel Perilous, right?

It's interesting reading about people's experiences in there. I feel like if I were taking the Chapel Tour, I'd avoid television entirely! Because of this:

All broadcasters are working to change my belief system.

It sounds like quite a journey. I'm not sure if I have the stomach for it. Some part of me has always wanted to take it, but after you've taken the first step, I hear it's really hard to get back. You needed medication to snap you out of it? Do you think most people would?

2c from SSOOKN.

1) I don't read Spanish. For those that do, does the original text come across as incoherent as the translation?

2) Cram - there's a lot of resources on Crowley. You can learn a lot about his life and work without having to join the OTO or similar organization. In fact, many self-described Thelemites are not members of any kind of 'order'.

3) The OTO (at least, the famous 'Caliphate' version that gets peoples panties in a bunch) do not put people on the 'path across the Abyss'. The OTO is a quasi-masonic style organization that exists for Thelemites to experience fellowship with like minded people. Their ceremonial initiations are an allegorical journey of incarnation, the chakras and a not very secret code for 'sex magic' that is revealed in the upper degrees (7th through 9th). Their mandate is not to teach magic nor lead people to Choronzon or whatever. That would, more properly be the business of the separate but closely related A:. A:. order.

4) The whole 'crossing the abyss' thing is peculiar to Crowley's idiosyncratic interpretation of the Hermetic qabalah that he learned from the Golden Dawn.  There's a vast amount of non-Crowley Hermetic/Qabbalistic resources which do not have all the 'spooky Abyss' stuff. Needless to say, if you spoke to experts on Judaic 'kosher' Qabbalah, they're going to look at you funny and make their best efforts to stifle a laugh in their considerable Hassidic facial hair.

5) The legitimacy (or not) of Crowley's abysmal musings aside, Choronzon is a personification of dispersion. Anything that distracts you from your True Will or purpose is Choronzon. All your negative self talk, self-limiting behaviors, excuses, rationalizations, fears etc that prevent you from fulfilling yourself to the utmost is Choronzon. Whatever keeps you from getting done what must be done is Choronzon. It's convenient label for all the reasons why a person wasn't 'all they could be'.

6) While a case could be made for 'psychosis as potentially liberating experience', mental breaks do not an initiate make.

7)  I've never read any of RAW's books, only a few essays and introductions that he wrote for other books. As such, I don't have anything to say about the 'Chapel Perilous'.



ETA: Chorozon, which is apparently neither a Mexican breakfast dish nor an obscure sports term.  That description works just as well.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

TWO SIDES LIVE WAS THE BEST ROCK N ROLL ALBUM EVER MADE!  AHHHHHH!  MOTHER, THEY'RE TRYING TO CRUCIFY ME!  GENIUS IS PAIN!  GENIUS IS PAAAAAIN!  OR WAS IT PAYNE?  AAAAAAAAAH!  AAAAAAAAAAAH!  Hey, don't mind me if I wrap up my collected teenage angst in your religion and take it for a drag through the sewer.  It's just my way.  Plus, I get to pass off my inability to deal with adolescence under this really cool "chapel perilous" thing.  I have a tallbike!  I had it before everyone else got one!  And you don't mind if I post this in a language that only one or two of you speak, right?  Also, please give me an entire Spanish-speaking section for my attention whoring.  AND I'M TIRED OF ALL THESE HIPPIES TRYING TO GET MY AUTOGRAPH, LOOK YOU LITTLE BASTARDS I'M NOT YOUR FUCKING PARENTS, FUCK YOUUUUUUUUUUUUU!

This machine...It is unstoppable.  It feels no pain.  It can't be reasoned with.