Author Topic: Transsexuality, Discordianism, and Self-confidence  (Read 19771 times)

Phox

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Re: Transsexuality, Discordianism, and Self-confidence
« Reply #45 on: December 15, 2011, 04:14:43 am »

But Roger, you are certainly riding the correct Houyhnhnm with your position.




You can't prove a fucking thing.
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Juana

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Re: Transsexuality, Discordianism, and Self-confidence
« Reply #46 on: December 15, 2011, 04:17:33 am »
I need to read Gulliver's Travels again, I see.

:thanks:

I am starting to rub off on you.   :lulz:

I advise turpentine and a pressure washer, stat.
I can only hope that's enough.

I was talking about ME.  YOU just need something to get my horrible hair off the furniture before your cat goes allergic.
That would explain her sneeze just now.

Also, Agent Garbo is a people, but she does things.  Terrible things.  People still talk about them, but never when she's around.
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"I dispose of obsolete meat machines.  Not because I hate them (I do) and not because they deserve it (they do), but because they are in the way and those older ones don't meet emissions codes.  They emit too much.  You don't like them and I don't like them, so spare me the hysteria."

Zenpeanut

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Re: Transsexuality, Discordianism, and Self-confidence
« Reply #47 on: December 15, 2011, 04:24:48 am »
Yeah, fuck it. Nevermind. I tried putting some sort of a positive thought and story to a topic drowning in tales of legitimate people either getting raped and beaten to death or jumping off a cliff because of all the tales of people getting raped and beaten to death. I should have realized it would have taken a turn into talking about how identity and labels don't matter despite the fact that in order for rights to be given or for proper recognition, you need some sort of a flag to run with.

If anything, I'd say the barstool applies to that. It's lunacy to think that labels don't matter, when in reality, they determine whether I get to be a human or a sub-human.

The Good Reverend Roger

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Re: Transsexuality, Discordianism, and Self-confidence
« Reply #48 on: December 15, 2011, 04:26:48 am »
in order for rights to be given or for proper recognition, you need some sort of a flag to run with.

No you don't.  That is monkey conditioning.  Flags are the first step to losing your freedom, not gaining it.

If anything, I'd say the barstool applies to that. It's lunacy to think that labels don't matter, when in reality, they determine whether I get to be a human or a sub-human.

No, you do that.
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Juana

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Re: Transsexuality, Discordianism, and Self-confidence
« Reply #49 on: December 15, 2011, 04:38:18 am »
Yeah, fuck it. Nevermind. I tried putting some sort of a positive thought and story to a topic drowning in tales of legitimate people either getting raped and beaten to death or jumping off a cliff because of all the tales of people getting raped and beaten to death. I should have realized it would have taken a turn into talking about how identity and labels don't matter despite the fact that in order for rights to be given or for proper recognition, you need some sort of a flag to run with.
I just went back and re-read the OP, and that's not not really the impression I got. It sounded to me like a vague link to Discordianism with some thought about crafting your gender and the various benefits you get from it, as well as "horray! self confidence!".

But like Rog said, you decide whether you get to be human or not. The way you act and regard yourself influences, at least to some degree, the way other people treat you.
"I dispose of obsolete meat machines.  Not because I hate them (I do) and not because they deserve it (they do), but because they are in the way and those older ones don't meet emissions codes.  They emit too much.  You don't like them and I don't like them, so spare me the hysteria."

Phox

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Re: Transsexuality, Discordianism, and Self-confidence
« Reply #50 on: December 15, 2011, 04:42:05 am »
Yeah, fuck it. Nevermind. I tried putting some sort of a positive thought and story to a topic drowning in tales of legitimate people either getting raped and beaten to death or jumping off a cliff because of all the tales of people getting raped and beaten to death. I should have realized it would have taken a turn into talking about how identity and labels don't matter despite the fact that in order for rights to be given or for proper recognition, you need some sort of a flag to run with.

If anything, I'd say the barstool applies to that. It's lunacy to think that labels don't matter, when in reality, they determine whether I get to be a human or a sub-human.
Hey, i liked your story and your message. And I'm in the same boat you are. And call me a lunatic, but labels are just words. They don't determine shit.


Juana

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Re: Transsexuality, Discordianism, and Self-confidence
« Reply #51 on: December 15, 2011, 04:56:34 am »
I'm not trying to invalidate your experience as a trans person, and I don't think anyone else is either. Personally, I just poked at your concept of "feminine" behavior and the way you seem to cling to the label of "woman".

I do think labels have a place, but only as a way to pin down an idea and as a reference point. They aren't the end-all-be-all of being you.
"I dispose of obsolete meat machines.  Not because I hate them (I do) and not because they deserve it (they do), but because they are in the way and those older ones don't meet emissions codes.  They emit too much.  You don't like them and I don't like them, so spare me the hysteria."

Reeducation

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Re: Transsexuality, Discordianism, and Self-confidence
« Reply #52 on: December 15, 2011, 10:34:39 am »
It's easy to be "you". You are always you. Can't escape it.
Everything one does is what one is.

And if one wants to label people, then one is a labeling-machine.


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Faust

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Re: Transsexuality, Discordianism, and Self-confidence
« Reply #53 on: December 15, 2011, 10:54:05 am »
As a Proud and beautiful woman, I find both sexual reassignment surgery and hormone therapy insulting to people of either gender.
As a woman I have the right to dress whatever way I want. I have a penchant for Jeans, shirts and briefs and wingtip shoes.
As a woman I have the right to date and see whomever I please, including my beautiful fiance.
As a woman I can drink, have nights out with the lads, fart and take my dick out to piss at the side of the road.
As a woman I have a right (assuming she feels the same way when the time comes) to impregnate my wife.

I feel that women, born male or female who use hormones are just painted tarts and those who mutilate their body are nothing more than cybertrannies.

Every woman, male or female should love the body she is given. And those who mutilate themselves are entitled to, whatever floats your boat, If a monkey wants to stick its dick in a vice who am I to judge, but they are not entitled to insult what it means to be a real man or woman like myself by saying that these body modifications are making them more of a woman or more of a man.

Edit: write the word cybertranny in the post reply and see what spell check suggests for it.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2011, 10:56:02 am by Faust »
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Phox

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Re: Transsexuality, Discordianism, and Self-confidence
« Reply #54 on: December 15, 2011, 11:30:07 am »
Edit: write the word cybertranny in the post reply and see what spell check suggests for it.
:lulz:

Zenpeanut

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Re: Transsexuality, Discordianism, and Self-confidence
« Reply #55 on: December 15, 2011, 05:19:13 pm »
Alright, I'm sorry. I got really upset last night and couldn't think all that well. I do think that it's important to deconstruct what a man or a woman or someone in between is. These are hard questions and concepts for me to grapple with and it's important for me to be able to do so.

I think my sensitivity in this is coming from me constantly having to defend against mis-labeling. That dude on the bus gave me labels of male and gay. I can laugh that off because it doesn't really affect me and the guy acted ridiculously in doing so. I had to spend a month walking home to use the bathroom when I was at work because my HR manager as long as she possibly could before I could use the women's restroom. This is a bit harder to laugh off. Especially knowing that other trans people in my company's employ didn't understand their rights and didn't fight against the false option of using the wrong bathroom or moving to a different store. A less cut and dry example would be that I feel that almost everyone who doesn't know me labels me as a gay male and this ends up seriously killing my chance of getting a relationship.

I hope we reach some kind of common ground on this, since I don't want to lead to some lame agree to disagree scenario, but I just don't see any sort of reality where labels honestly don't matter. My past partner did their best to not apply a label onto themselves and I respected that, but that still didn't stop everyone around us from slapping a female label on her. English language doesn't allow for non-labels (outside of the awkward ze/hir thing or they/them that my past partner preferred). Yes, the queer community has a huge load of labels, but they aren't used to constrict people into stereotype shaped boxes, but to be able to find some group of people with a common characteristic or to organize under some sort of umbrella term like LGBT or transgender in support of rights for everyone under them.







The Good Reverend Roger

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Re: Transsexuality, Discordianism, and Self-confidence
« Reply #56 on: December 15, 2011, 05:21:56 pm »
I think my sensitivity in this is coming from me constantly having to defend against mis-labeling. That dude on the bus gave me labels of male and gay. I can laugh that off because it doesn't really affect me and the guy acted ridiculously in doing so. I had to spend a month walking home to use the bathroom when I was at work because my HR manager as long as she possibly could before I could use the women's restroom. This is a bit harder to laugh off.

I am absolutely gobsmacked by this paragraph.

ETA:  Pull the other one, it has bells.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2011, 05:27:29 pm by The Good Reverend Roger »
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

 "Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Juana

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Re: Transsexuality, Discordianism, and Self-confidence
« Reply #57 on: December 15, 2011, 05:29:10 pm »
^ That, because you're still missing the point at least four of us have been making. Defending your rights is one thing, but fuck 'em if they don't get it otherwise.
"I dispose of obsolete meat machines.  Not because I hate them (I do) and not because they deserve it (they do), but because they are in the way and those older ones don't meet emissions codes.  They emit too much.  You don't like them and I don't like them, so spare me the hysteria."

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

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Re: Transsexuality, Discordianism, and Self-confidence
« Reply #58 on: December 15, 2011, 05:29:44 pm »
Hoo boy, there's a lot to cover here so I guess I'll just dig in.

Nigel, your focus on seems to be centered more on SRS and practices surrounding it. I agree wholeheartedly that the criteria for having SRS is abysmal. The Standards of Care (health criteria for trans issues) was, and still is, decided by cissexuals.

Wait.

By what?
Cissexual is a term for non-trans person.

That's fucking stupid.

Oook ook, monkey boxes. Gotta stick people in 'em!
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The Good Reverend Roger

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Re: Transsexuality, Discordianism, and Self-confidence
« Reply #59 on: December 15, 2011, 05:33:20 pm »
I think my sensitivity in this is coming from me constantly having to defend against mis-labeling. That dude on the bus gave me labels of male and gay. I can laugh that off because it doesn't really affect me and the guy acted ridiculously in doing so. I had to spend a month walking home to use the bathroom when I was at work because my HR manager as long as she possibly could before I could use the women's restroom. This is a bit harder to laugh off.

I am absolutely gobsmacked by this paragraph.

ETA:  Pull the other one, it has bells.

Garbo, this?  ^
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

 "Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.