Do You Know the Real Islam?

[Cain]

If it is a CIA/Pentagon shill they really deserve to have their budget cut if they can afford to pay morons to post asinine messages on the back ally of the internet.

Though it would be funny if this was one of those weird terrorist recruitment/entrapment things they do. Well, funny in so far as I love hearing about CIA wasted time and resources on pointless endeavours.

Well, it turned out they were a spambot.  This doesn't necessarily invalidate the idea they were a spambot moonlighting for the NSA.

[Cain]

a) all religions are demonstratably false

You mean they're unfalsifiable, which means the opposite of what you said but has identical implications in practice.

Plus, I get the feeling that when you say "all religions" you mean "only mainstream western religions". Some of the more bare bones versions of Buddhism claim little more than that chasing obsessively after wealth will make you miserable. If my university hadn't cut off my JSTOR subscription after I graduated, I could probably find you a paper supporting this claim. And what about Discordianism and SubGenius themselves, which are secured against falsehood (and truth) by a variation of the Liar's Paradox due to the openly deliberate falsehood of their mythologies. And while you could almost certainly disprove the existence of the specific deities of the ancient Greco-Roman pantheon, their standards were so low (there were precedents both for gods who were not truly immortal, as well as for gods whose most significant powers were the result of special tools rather than inherent abilities) that you could probably find somebody in the modern day who meets their qualifications for godhood.

Yes dear, you're very clever, congratulations.

[Juana]

I disapprove of your use of the term "real Islam". The Quran, just like the Bible, the Principia Discordia and pretty much everything else, can be interpreted and misinterpreted in various ways, leading to completely different ideas about what Islam, Christianity, Discordianism and Freedom™ really is. Everything is real and nothing is real.

That being said, I do agree that a lot of people in the West see Islam as one homogenous entity, and I think that's sad. The Turkish fellow who runs a pizzeria in my town, drinks beer and eats pork claims to be a Muslim. Ayatollah Khamenei claims to be a Muslim. They have about as much in common as a herring and a parrot.

CHORDATES UNITE!

[Faust]

If it is a CIA/Pentagon shill they really deserve to have their budget cut if they can afford to pay morons to post asinine messages on the back ally of the internet.

Though it would be funny if this was one of those weird terrorist recruitment/entrapment things they do. Well, funny in so far as I love hearing about CIA wasted time and resources on pointless endeavours.

Well, it turned out they were a spambot.  This doesn't necessarily invalidate the idea they were a spambot moonlighting for the NSA.

Wooooo that's depressing: It can't be a bot, they cannot complete registration. It means some poor human chump is going around posting that propaganda.

[East Coast Hustle]

a) all religions are demonstratably false

You mean they're unfalsifiable, which means the opposite of what you said but has identical implications in practice.

Plus, I get the feeling that when you say "all religions" you mean "only mainstream western religions". Some of the more bare bones versions of Buddhism claim little more than that chasing obsessively after wealth will make you miserable. If my university hadn't cut off my JSTOR subscription after I graduated, I could probably find you a paper supporting this claim. And what about Discordianism and SubGenius themselves, which are secured against falsehood (and truth) by a variation of the Liar's Paradox due to the openly deliberate falsehood of their mythologies. And while you could almost certainly disprove the existence of the specific deities of the ancient Greco-Roman pantheon, their standards were so low (there were precedents both for gods who were not truly immortal, as well as for gods whose most significant powers were the result of special tools rather than inherent abilities) that you could probably find somebody in the modern day who meets their qualifications for godhood.

Requia? Is that you?

[Triple Zero]

Well, it turned out they were a spambot.  This doesn't necessarily invalidate the idea they were a spambot moonlighting for the NSA.

Really? I got the same impression when I read some of his posts which were very generic and barely-touching-on-topic, like the "I hope to read more from you at http://www.principiadiscordia.com", that sent off some alarm bells, but how did you find out?

I disapprove of your use of the term "real Islam". The Quran, just like the Bible, the Principia Discordia and pretty much everything else, can be interpreted and misinterpreted in various ways

As a Discordian, I take offence to this. The Principia Discordia can only be misinterpreted.

[Golden Applesauce]

Do we have anything in our EULA against spambots that are also agents of government agencies we don't like?

I know there'd be zero chance of winning, but I'd love to see "Irish-operated forum sues US defense agencies over spambots" in the headlines.

[Golden Applesauce]

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/528.330550-Do-You-Know-the-Real-Islam

Their thread starts off the same way ours does, too.  

[Cain]

Well, it turned out they were a spambot.  This doesn't necessarily invalidate the idea they were a spambot moonlighting for the NSA.

Really? I got the same impression when I read some of his posts which were very generic and barely-touching-on-topic, like the "I hope to read more from you at http://www.principiadiscordia.com", that sent off some alarm bells, but how did you find out?

I disapprove of your use of the term "real Islam". The Quran, just like the Bible, the Principia Discordia and pretty much everything else, can be interpreted and misinterpreted in various ways

As a Discordian, I take offence to this. The Principia Discordia can only be misinterpreted.

There was a post in this forum filled with loads of spam links.  Froggy on IRC pointed it out to me, in fact, I honestly hadn't paid that much attention.

[Phox]

It's incredibly sad how few people really know the true Islam today.

Islam teaches many things and that includes justice, love, preserving family blood ties, brotherhood, kindness to one's parents, and the list goes on.

Many people in the West confuse the real teachings of Islam with the stupid behavior of extremists who have the audacity to call themselves muslims. Real muslims do not kill innocent people. But these terrorists use any excuse to justify their foolish actions.

Then there are those who use the following terms: "radical islam" or "islamic radicalism,"  or "islamic terrorists" which in reality have nothing to do with Islam.  Why?  Islam does not support any kind of radical, terrorist, or extremist behavior.

Another point that many people in the West confuse: Sunna with Shia sect. The  "muslims" from Iran practice a version of Islam which isn't truly Islam. There was a split of who should have been the first muslim leader after Muhammad's death. Some believed that Muhammad(PBUH) wanted Ali Ibn Abi Talib to become the first Caliph. Ali's supporters became the shia sect.  And the Sunni is the majority of muslims today. The Sunni is the practices of Prophet Muhammad(Peace Be Upon Him) which are the examples that he set forth in order to give future Muslims a clear guidance in how to behave in everyday life. This is the true Islam.

People are confusing politics with religion, and that is why most people today cannot get a truer picture of the real Islam.

Fair points, but I think there is issue with saying that "Iran practices a version of Islam that isn't truly Islam". That's like saying that Catholics aren't real Christians (or Baptists, or Methodists, or whatever).

And there is a great deal of overlap between politics and religion, but I think there are others here much more suited to addressing that issue than I.

Phox,
Thinking about radical Buddhist extremists.

Those exist. See: "Southern Thailand".

And while the OP raises many fair points about Islam, it fails to address the fact that ALL religions are fucking retarded superstitious nonsense that have been holding humanity back for, oh, ever.

I know they exist, ECH. 

[Faust]

Well, it turned out they were a spambot.  This doesn't necessarily invalidate the idea they were a spambot moonlighting for the NSA.

Really? I got the same impression when I read some of his posts which were very generic and barely-touching-on-topic, like the "I hope to read more from you at http://www.principiadiscordia.com", that sent off some alarm bells, but how did you find out?

I disapprove of your use of the term "real Islam". The Quran, just like the Bible, the Principia Discordia and pretty much everything else, can be interpreted and misinterpreted in various ways

As a Discordian, I take offence to this. The Principia Discordia can only be misinterpreted.

They were in context enough to try and elicit a certain response, especially the violence comment. Sends chills down my back.

[East Coast Hustle]

It's incredibly sad how few people really know the true Islam today.

Islam teaches many things and that includes justice, love, preserving family blood ties, brotherhood, kindness to one's parents, and the list goes on.

Many people in the West confuse the real teachings of Islam with the stupid behavior of extremists who have the audacity to call themselves muslims. Real muslims do not kill innocent people. But these terrorists use any excuse to justify their foolish actions.

Then there are those who use the following terms: "radical islam" or "islamic radicalism,"  or "islamic terrorists" which in reality have nothing to do with Islam.  Why?  Islam does not support any kind of radical, terrorist, or extremist behavior.

Another point that many people in the West confuse: Sunna with Shia sect. The  "muslims" from Iran practice a version of Islam which isn't truly Islam. There was a split of who should have been the first muslim leader after Muhammad's death. Some believed that Muhammad(PBUH) wanted Ali Ibn Abi Talib to become the first Caliph. Ali's supporters became the shia sect.  And the Sunni is the majority of muslims today. The Sunni is the practices of Prophet Muhammad(Peace Be Upon Him) which are the examples that he set forth in order to give future Muslims a clear guidance in how to behave in everyday life. This is the true Islam.

People are confusing politics with religion, and that is why most people today cannot get a truer picture of the real Islam.

Fair points, but I think there is issue with saying that "Iran practices a version of Islam that isn't truly Islam". That's like saying that Catholics aren't real Christians (or Baptists, or Methodists, or whatever).

And there is a great deal of overlap between politics and religion, but I think there are others here much more suited to addressing that issue than I.

Phox,
Thinking about radical Buddhist extremists.

Those exist. See: "Southern Thailand".

And while the OP raises many fair points about Islam, it fails to address the fact that ALL religions are fucking retarded superstitious nonsense that have been holding humanity back for, oh, ever.

I know they exist, ECH. 

Yep, as far as those cats are concerned EVERYBODY is Buddha on the road.

[Cain]

If it is a CIA/Pentagon shill they really deserve to have their budget cut if they can afford to pay morons to post asinine messages on the back ally of the internet.

Though it would be funny if this was one of those weird terrorist recruitment/entrapment things they do. Well, funny in so far as I love hearing about CIA wasted time and resources on pointless endeavours.

Well, it turned out they were a spambot.  This doesn't necessarily invalidate the idea they were a spambot moonlighting for the NSA.

Or the IRGC.

If it was the IRGC, my hat is off to them.  Using blatantly crappy psy-op campaigns made to look like an American propaganda effort and so build resentment to the attempts at manipulation would be an excellent black-flag op and much cleverer than using a failing second-hand car salesman to organise a hit on the Saudi Ambassador.

[Cain]

Well, it turned out they were a spambot.  This doesn't necessarily invalidate the idea they were a spambot moonlighting for the NSA.

Really? I got the same impression when I read some of his posts which were very generic and barely-touching-on-topic, like the "I hope to read more from you at http://www.principiadiscordia.com", that sent off some alarm bells, but how did you find out?

I disapprove of your use of the term "real Islam". The Quran, just like the Bible, the Principia Discordia and pretty much everything else, can be interpreted and misinterpreted in various ways

As a Discordian, I take offence to this. The Principia Discordia can only be misinterpreted.

They were in context enough to try and elicit a certain response, especially the violence comment. Sends chills down my back.

Yes, that one would be worrying, if I wasn't already sure I was flagged by certain three letter agencies anyway.  Hell, my Amazon book orders are enough to warrant the attention of the FBI.  Since 2004, I've bought a large number of books on military strategy, Islamist theology, terrorist violence, how to undertake coups, analyses of irregular warfare campaigns, neofascist and communist literature (especially that relating to political violence) and criminological texts. 

Nevertheless, that is slightly concerning, since the essay in question was a historically grounded proposition concerning the threat of violence, and not its actual utility, from what I can recall.  I wrote it a good four or five years ago, when I was getting bored with political textbooks going on about the social contract as if such a contract really existed, and it was not a constant hedging and balancing between elite factions and a broader citizen-base about the interpretation of rights.  It was not "lets go fuck the government's shit up, hell yeah".

To give an example, MLK's campaign.  He urged protestors to be peaceful on the one hand, while warning Washington if it continued there would eventually be violence.  In fact, MLK is a perfect example of what I was talking about.

[Cramulus]

The OP strikes me as a form of consensus fly-fishing. You flick your copypasta into the river and see if any fish bite.

Random thought:

I've always wondered if one could do a broad survey of internet forums. Like, I wish somebody published a guide to internet forums, and were able to talk about the similarities and differences and themes of each one. But how would you collect those data? A forum is different every single day, so anything you write about it might be invalid in 6 months. You'd need a quick way to measure consensus.

I had thought -- one way would be to come up with some copypasta like the OP. And you could post a version of it on every forum you were getting a reading for. By comparing the responses to it, you could get a rough thumbnail of each forum's culture as it relates to a given topic.

For example, if we were trying to find forums that were ripe for Discordia, we might construct an irreligious-affinity index. Maybe we'd make a pro-atheism post, a pro-christianity post, and post a Discordian tract on a bunch of message boards. Then we could count the replies to each post in terms of agreement, disagreement, flames, etc... it would basically be a methodology for finding likeminded spags. Or figuring out which forums have the most landmines.

Might make for an interesting blog or something.