No more sermons, no more rants.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

difference of opinion = YOU ARE A FUCKING RETARD

                              ^
                       content cancer

The dynamics of the board have changed.  I'm not sure they are always conducive to interaction and the exchange of ideas.  It's either endless mittens or a dogpile.  what's the point?  Yeah, I will fully admit, I come here for entertainment now.  It just isn't the same.  It isn't like it was when we were churning out idea after idea, sermon after sermon, rant after rant.  It's just different.  Chalk it up to different personalities, people's priorities shifting, whatever, this place just doesn't have that kind of chemistry anymore. 

Yeah,

it's not the same creative trip

I used to bash my head against the wall over it
over and over it

but it's okay, you know?

I came for the projects
I stayed cause it turns out I love you guys

Your projects are interesting, and usually successful.  You should do more.  Board's about bitter & ranted out¹, it's time to try something new.


¹  Almost.  I have one more thing to say, that's been stewing for quite some time.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

While reading the thread, a thought came to my mind - the "Ulysses project."
Basically, it's about encouraging people writing about everyday life, but in Joycean way - creating from boring events a fascinating, hilarious tale. And the project will be a collection of the "best" ones, or just a collection of the ones.
Maybe it will encourage people to write about daily life, but in a more creative way than the usual "what I did today" style.

I would dearly love to see more of this. For a long time, most of my writing inspiration came from writing stories about my personal life and trying to make them funny... Bad date? Write a story! Tonsillectomy? Write a story! Engine on fire in the middle of one of the nation's largest national forests? Write a story!

With Open Bar, Facebook, Twitter, and similar venues practically begging for flat, factual one-line status updates, I've become lazy and unfunny. I will seek to remedy my ways. Because life, as must as it may suck, is also fucking HILARIOUS.

[Juana]

I have a couple story things I've been sitting on, hesitant to post (because well, y'all are some of the best writers I've seen and it's a little intimidating). There's one in particular I've been stuck on for a while. I'll post it and see.

[EK WAFFLR]

I have a couple story things I've been sitting on, hesitant to post (because well, y'all are some of the best writers I've seen and it's a little intimidating).

The TRUTH

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

In fact, I wonder if what the board needs in general is more mirth*. We might be just about all horrored out. The tone is bitter lately, and jaded... and for good reason. I mean, look at this fucking world. But we're IN it, and now that what we've been predicting for so long is actually going down, maybe we need something else to make this an island of sanity in the sea of insanity?

I know I've had about enough of bitterness.










*Not just silliness. Funniness.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I have a couple story things I've been sitting on, hesitant to post (because well, y'all are some of the best writers I've seen and it's a little intimidating).

The TRUTH

This is a good truth, but the only way to become a better writer is to write, to be criticized, and to keep on writing.

Tip, though; if you are criticized, rather than taking it personally, brushing it off, or, worst of all, digging in and going defensive, just absorb it, say "thank you", and remember that you can always simply not use criticism that truly doesn't work for you. (And always remember Quiller-Couch's advice to "Murder your darlings"!)

[EK WAFFLR]

This is a good truth, but the only way to become a better writer is to write, to be criticized, and to keep on writing.

Tip, though; if you are criticized, rather than taking it personally, brushing it off, or, worst of all, digging in and going defensive, just absorb it, say "thank you", and remember that you can always simply not use criticism that truly doesn't work for you. (And always remember Quiller-Couch's advice to "Murder your darlings"!)

Oh, I'm not afraid of the criticisms. I just feel like a karaoke singer in a bar filled with opera singers.

[Luna]

This is a good truth, but the only way to become a better writer is to write, to be criticized, and to keep on writing.

Tip, though; if you are criticized, rather than taking it personally, brushing it off, or, worst of all, digging in and going defensive, just absorb it, say "thank you", and remember that you can always simply not use criticism that truly doesn't work for you. (And always remember Quiller-Couch's advice to "Murder your darlings"!)

Oh, I'm not afraid of the criticisms. I just feel like a karaoke singer in a bar filled with opera singers.

How did opera singers get that good?

Practice. 

[Juana]

Oh, I'm not worried about criticism. I can take it for what it is and use it. It's still totally ego related and I'm being a weeny, though, because I hate being ignored, and I've watched a fair few story threads sink without a trace. My assumption is, if no one said anything to it, is that it wasn't even worth criticizing.

edited

[Pæs]

This thread got me thinking about the criticism of organisations in The Coming Insurrection.

Organizations are attractive due to their apparent consistency – they have a history, a head office, a name, resources, a leader, a strategy and a discourse. They are nonetheless empty structures, which, in spite of their grand origins, can never be filled. In all their affairs, at every level, these organizations are concerned above all with their own survival as organizations, and little else. Their repeated betrayals have often alienated the commitment of their own rank and file. And this is why you can, on occasion, run into worthy beings within them. But the promise of the encounter can only be realized outside the organization and, unavoidably, at odds with it.

While I wouldn't attack PD.com with quite the same criticism, I think it's important to recognise that some people aren't here to contribute to MY understanding of Discordia. For some our posters, just being a part of this community as a community rather than as a means to advance Discordianism, is their aim. The sharing of what is seen as "the banal details of their lives" is a pretty normal part of the friendship they have with a lot of the other members. If that's not what some people want out of the site, I think we need to decide whether we can tell others that they're not allowed to get that here anymore; that efforts like this one need to be understood from the perspective of the members who will reply with "oh, so I can't contribute content, I guess I'm not wanted here anymore".

Do we risk their leaving by demanding that the evolution of Discordianism become our focus and restricting their ability to chat about their day?
Would their leaving actually be helpful in increasing content?

I stayed cause it turns out I love you guys

Not to imply that Cramulus is ONLY here to develop the community as a social community, but this post is a good example of what is keeping some people here.

What's the point in critiquing anything or engaging in real discussion when it all results in a nest of passive-aggressive snarking and whining? People say ridiculous things in order to get a reaction and then instead of engaging with people criticizing them or trying to improve their work, they either lash out, or they withdraw and sulk. It's like a whole generation of adult intellectual exercise has fallen out the window, and all that's left is a pile of mittens and butthurt.

This is a problem that, for those of us who are here to engage in real discussion, needs to be addressed. There's a lot of personal attachment to ideas, and hollering and screeching in response to people digging in and the discussion turning into a flame war.

In part, you've addressed it here:

Tip, though; if you are criticized, rather than taking it personally, brushing it off, or, worst of all, digging in and going defensive, just absorb it, say "thank you", and remember that you can always simply not use criticism that truly doesn't work for you.

But I wonder if we need to develop better tools and methods for addressing arguments that people are too invested in without triggering their "I AM BEING ATTACKED" circuitry.

[AFK]

difference of opinion = YOU ARE A FUCKING RETARD

                              ^
                       content cancer

THIS!

The dynamics of the board have changed.  I'm not sure they are always conducive to interaction and the exchange of ideas.  It's either endless mittens or a dogpile.  what's the point?  Yeah, I will fully admit, I come here for entertainment now.  It just isn't the same.  It isn't like it was when we were churning out idea after idea, sermon after sermon, rant after rant.  It's just different.  Chalk it up to different personalities, people's priorities shifting, whatever, this place just doesn't have that kind of chemistry anymore. 

Yeah,

it's not the same creative trip

I used to bash my head against the wall over it
over and over it

but it's okay, you know?

I came for the projects
I stayed cause it turns out I love you guys

[/quote]

Also this!  

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

This is a good truth, but the only way to become a better writer is to write, to be criticized, and to keep on writing.

Tip, though; if you are criticized, rather than taking it personally, brushing it off, or, worst of all, digging in and going defensive, just absorb it, say "thank you", and remember that you can always simply not use criticism that truly doesn't work for you. (And always remember Quiller-Couch's advice to "Murder your darlings"!)

Oh, I'm not afraid of the criticisms. I just feel like a karaoke singer in a bar filled with opera singers.

How did opera singers get that good?

Practice. 

True story. Writing, like singing, is not an innate skill, but a learned one.

My singing teacher told me than anyone can be taught to sing, as long as they believe they can be. Some people are more limited in range than others due to physical structures, but anyone can sing given enough practice and training.

Supporting anecdote: When my sisters and I were little, my mom always said that singing didn't run in our family and so it was no surprise that we couldn't sing. I always believed that I couldn't sing, but I always wanted to. When I was going through a divorce in my late twenties and under enormous stress, I started singing along to certain songs as a form of stress relief, and one day years later someone overheard me and said "You have such a pretty voice; I wish I could sing but I don't have any talent".

And I recorded myself and lo and behold, I no longer sounded terrible, and could actually stick to the tune pretty well. So I took singing lessons (from the teacher referenced above) and as a result I started singing around the house all the time. My kids grew up hearing me sing, and their logical assumption was "Mom's a singer, so we must be singers too". They didn't start out wonderful, at all, but no one ever discouraged them and when they complained about not being good they were told "Singing is a muscle; you have to exercise it". They are all wonderful singers now. Well, LO isn't yet but she's really young.

Like singing, writing, or any other art, is only about 10% innate talent, and 90% actual practice and effort.

[Triple Zero]

I made a graph. Just because the post stats (there's a link below the main forum index) are hard to interpret as numbers, I like em visual. I hoped I could find some trend or something, but there's not very much to work with IMO:



First, I'm not even sure if I'm looking at the right numbers that would bring out the problem. There's a slight downward trend, but on the whole, and given the variance of the whole graph, it shouldn't feel as wrong as the forum has been lately. And I do agree something feels wrong.

Thing is, these are all the new posts and threads, and if Roger's right and everybody is just fluffing, post rate won't go down, but value will. I suppose we'd see a very different picture if I'd leave out Apple Talk, for instance. Except I didn't have those stats readily available.

About the Open Bar, it can't really be the problem, we've had that thread since forever, so I don't know if removing it is going to solve anything. That said, I won't particularly miss it either.

What I really think is a core part of the problem--like others also said--is that we used to have way more awesome posters, a lot of them wandered off, and there hasn't been enough great new blood to fill that gap. Not putting blame our more recent members btw, there's just not enough of ya

I mean, think about it, out of 10 new members, there's 7 worthless trolls we have to deal with, 2 that might be interesting people if they'd make more than five posts and 1 that maybe sticks around and becomes a contributing member. I'm pretty damn sure this distribution used to be a lot more favourable.

One more observation about the graph: it seems that around October'10 we were doing something right. Anyone remember what it was? And the whole winter of Nov'09 to Mar'10 seems to have been a pretty solid period as well. Going further back (the numbers do, this graph doesn't) the largest peak is Jan'09-Feb'09. Yes, that was the dreaded February where all that shit personal stuff happened to a lot of people at once, which might be partially responsible for the steep decline that comes immediately after, in April-May'09. But we got back on our feet soon after that.

I dunno, if I were to guess, it's not so much the specific projects we were doing back then, as there being a relatively steady influx of cool new members that actually stuck around for some time.

.. and reading the new posts since I started writing this, I also agree with Nigel's suggestion of more mirth. Pointing out all the horrible things must of course be done, but you need to counterbalance it with laughter, or it will really get to you! That's in fact now my prime suspect for the crappy board mood, and it eats energy, you read a couple of new posts, they get you down and before you know it you're "just viewing". I know some people here actually manage to really laugh at the horrors until they can't stop screaming, and get energy from fucking with the idiots that caused it. But not everybody, even though we do manage a very convincing wry smile.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

A PS. to my last post; some shitty-ass writers are SUPERB storytellers.

It can go the other way, too, though.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

A lot of the time, I just look at the thread because I feel silly just giving mittens without contributing additional thought. And sometimes I just don't have it.

Problem is is that for a while now, I haven't really had anything interesting to add, and I seem to have trouble motivating myself to get out and do things. I don't know what it is, but it's not just here. I haven't been able to write any new songs either, aside from some really goofy one that I don't really intend to do anything with other than entertain myself. But, I don't play guitar in my spare time anymore either. The only times I play are at band practice, or at a show. And sometimes, I look at a thread and think, "ooh, I missed this one, and it looks interesting but I can't put the mental energy into it at the moment. I'll read it later." But I never get around to it.

I'm not going to be back home for a few days, but, after this weekend, I'm going to make myself respond to thoughtful threads instead of fluff threads. I'm not going to be able to pull myself out of this without making myself do something. Even if that something is not that great.

I'll also be certain to start a thoughtful thread once a week.