10 Points to Ponder. Or Kill TGRR.

[Cain]

I wasn't just talking about trolling.  To clarify.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

Not sure where you got this from, but I hope you appreciate the irony in that you raised issues, people largely agreed with you (though you must surely have expected some disagreement), and now you are getting defensive.

Just saying.

"It's not just Roger and Nigel..."
- Cram

It is a given that Roger and Nigel are bad guys, apparently.  It goes without saying, it is blatantly obvious that we are going to be a large part of the problem.  It is because of us and those who act like us that Cram doesn't feel that we are a group he wants to be a part of.  WE ARE THE VILLAINS.  EVERY PROBLEM PD HAS IS DIRECTLY BECAUSE OF US AND OUR BAD INFLUENCE.  PERIOD.

I mean, I was being totally unreasonable when Cram said that a lot of my beliefs are "wankery".  I should have let Zenpeanut cry on my shoulder because of the vicious bigotry inherent in not being able to use the women's bathroom (which is right the fuck up there with Harvey Milk and Matthew Shepherd).  

You're right, I'm just being all defensive and shit.  Or words to that effect.

you know, my post was responding to RWHN's suggestion that you and nigel are a lion's share of the problem. The whole sentence goes "It's not just roger and nigel, it's everybody". Should I have said "It's everybody except roger and nigel?" I thought I was sticking up for you cats. Well I guess I didn't use enough e-prime, and now you're treating my post like a personal attack exclusively about you two. I await the beautiful fairy princess shtick to mock the suggestion that anybody should ever chill out. While you're working on that, I'll be on google reader.

This is how I read your post, too.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

I think Roger's post is spot on, and I apologize for not posting more and better.  I tend to scan threads while my computer is automating other stuff, and I am largely distracted 95% of the time.  Really I shouldn't post at all, it isn't fair to the people who are here every day and paying full attention.... but I love you guys and can't stay away.  I even dream about you fuckers.  More often than I am willing to admit.

Let me just say this... if there WAS a RogerAndNigel.com... I would read it.  So there.

Yep. Telarus showed up in one of mine a couple of nights ago.

As would I.

[Faust]

It would be nice if this thread doesn't devolve into the same bitching we've seen, it doesn't help and we've seen the exact same thing several times before.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

I wasn't just talking about trolling.  To clarify.

I figured. But trolling is probably the most common outward activity here.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I don't think I'm all that easy to offend, but I am pretty offended right now.

Maybe PD should make double-posting against the rules. Most often, I only do that in threads when I missed all the action and want to comment on multiple posts that happened while I was off. I did it quite a bit in Open bar, because I figured, who the hell cares, anyway?

As far as personal attacks, I may attack an idea, I may attack a behavior, but I am generally careful not to attack a person, with an exception; I have a long memory for people who have called me a bitch or a slut, or pulled out the "I don't like you, personally" card, and I don't apply my normal rules to those people. Unless they apologize, in which case it's starting from scratch.

But anyway. I am not interested in defending myself, here.

[Scribbly]

Also, the passive-aggressive 'ok then' responses are pretty frustrating after calling RWHN out for being passive-aggressive.

That wasn't passive-aggressive, that was a bit of unwarranted shock and surprise.

I was honestly gobsmacked.  What the hell can you say to something like that?

I posted this thread in an attempt to find the root cause of the problems at PD.  Apparently, that root cause has been found.  Mission successful, even if it turned out that the root cause was me.



Now, I'm a good maintenance man, always have been.  When troubleshooting a problem, you first must find the root cause of failure, and then address it.

Consider it addressed.

I'm not sure how to respond to this post as you seem intent on making me paint you as the villain when that has never been the intent of anything I've posted.

If the responses genuinely weren't meant as passive-aggressive, I apologize; that's how it came across to me.

You yourself said, however;

3.  On that note, emotes are not an acceptable substitute for conversation.  Mittens are not a reply, they are an indication that either the person didn't read the post (in which case, why answer?), or that the post didn't have anything that stood out (in which case you should say so).  We are NOT here to uncritically accept the work of our peers, but to comment, discuss, tear apart (if need be), etc, the work in question.  

All that anyone is saying is we would like to tear apart the work, without tearing apart the people.

I'm sorry you seem to think that it is meant as an attack on you. I don't think anyone, with the possible exception of RWHN, meant it as such. I don't see how this is such a controversial idea, myself.

(Editted to fix quoting fail)

[Scribbly]

I don't think I'm all that easy to offend, but I am pretty offended right now.

Maybe PD should make double-posting against the rules. Most often, I only do that in threads when I missed all the action and want to comment on multiple posts that happened while I was off. I did it quite a bit in Open bar, because I figured, who the hell cares, anyway?

As far as personal attacks, I may attack an idea, I may attack a behavior, but I am generally careful not to attack a person, with an exception; I have a long memory for people who have called me a bitch or a slut, or pulled out the "I don't like you, personally" card, and I don't apply my normal rules to those people. Unless they apologize, in which case it's starting from scratch.

But anyway. I am not interested in defending myself, here.

I'm sorry, I honestly tend to associate you with being fairly willing to rip into someone if they've got on your bad side. You should not feel like you need to defend yourself, because this is supposed to be a constructive thread.

If you don't do the behaviour that is being complained about; fantastic! Just keep on not doing it, and presumably things will get better. I apologize if I've mischaracterized you in any way, it was not my intent.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

It would be nice if this thread doesn't devolve into the same bitching we've seen, it doesn't help and we've seen the exact same thing several times before.

This. Threads like this always make me perk up and start wagging my tail, and then it gets bogged down in stuff that really has nothing to do with it, and is based off of one person either saying something potentially inflammatory without clarification or second thought or misreading someone else's post, or both.

I'd like to keep wagging my tail this time.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

All that anyone is saying is we would like to tear apart the work, without tearing apart the people.

I'm sorry you seem to think that it is meant as an attack on you. I don't think anyone, with the possible exception of RWHN, meant it as such. I don't see how this is such a controversial idea, myself.

Gonna digest shit for a bit, try to see things the way you're seeing them, decide if I want to carry on with this Discordian thing.

[Faust]

Maybe PD should make double-posting against the rules. Most often, I only do that in threads when I missed all the action and want to comment on multiple posts that happened while I was off. I did it quite a bit in Open bar, because I figured, who the hell cares, anyway?

I wouldn't really say that double posting is what I was describing, it's merely that a large majority of replies made to a thread are generally made by the same handful of people. Every thread gets a back and forth with a couple of people, especially on later pages, and that's good to encourage, but it would be nice to see that more with a larger group of people.
And even with that back and forth, someone else might make a response and be completely ignored because it's in the middle of that kind of thing, seeing more discussion of those posts that get left behind would instantly make threads more interesting.

Bear in mind, I'm not insulting anyone, this is entirely based on my subjective experience of the forum, everyone gets something different from each thread, it's just something I've noticed as a common trend.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I don't think I'm all that easy to offend, but I am pretty offended right now.

Maybe PD should make double-posting against the rules. Most often, I only do that in threads when I missed all the action and want to comment on multiple posts that happened while I was off. I did it quite a bit in Open bar, because I figured, who the hell cares, anyway?

As far as personal attacks, I may attack an idea, I may attack a behavior, but I am generally careful not to attack a person, with an exception; I have a long memory for people who have called me a bitch or a slut, or pulled out the "I don't like you, personally" card, and I don't apply my normal rules to those people. Unless they apologize, in which case it's starting from scratch.

But anyway. I am not interested in defending myself, here.

I'm sorry, I honestly tend to associate you with being fairly willing to rip into someone if they've got on your bad side. You should not feel like you need to defend yourself, because this is supposed to be a constructive thread.

If you don't do the behaviour that is being complained about; fantastic! Just keep on not doing it, and presumably things will get better. I apologize if I've mischaracterized you in any way, it was not my intent.

In my opinion, which is not humble, the main reason for that is because most people, even intelligent people, cannot tell the difference between someone calling their idea idiotic, and calling them idiotic. Or the difference between someone telling them that their behavior is childish, and calling them a childish person.

Fuck, there is one poster here (used to be a couple of them) who seems to feel personally attacked when nobody's even talking about them. And I usually get the blame, because I am apparently just that bad of a person.

Anyway, I'm going to go cool my heels and soothe my bruised feelings for a while.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I'm not sure how to respond to this post as you seem intent on making me paint you as the villain when that has never been the intent of anything I've posted.

Wasn't talking about you.  I was talking about the people who don't feel that I - or we (either Nigel and I, or the board at large) - are worthy of being people they'd like to associate with.

Maybe this is more what they want:

http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=31075.0

Who the fuck knows?

I don't know what the fuck I want to do right now, so I'm not going to do anything.  I'll be back when I get my head straight.  Or not.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Okay, it's not "or not".

I'm just having a little trouble dealing with the notion that someone I respect doesn't want to be associated with me.

Still cogitating.  More coherent response later.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

I wasn't just talking about trolling.  To clarify.

I figured. But trolling is probably the most common outward activity here.

This might be a good idea to riff on. Not everyone's cut out for trolling but would still like to be a part of something.

How can we encourage more activity in O:MF?