Uncomfortable topics: Let's talk about race

[Cainad (dec.)]

The spelling mistakes are deliberate and are intended to be pronounced as written... I can hear it in my head and it's perfect. Yes, urban kids from poor neighborhoods, mostly black, speaking in a "ghetto" (which in the US is often used synonymously with "poor black neighborhood") vernacular. It's pretty safe to assume that most of them are black.

I  thought it was hilarious and that the kids were clever and funny. Two of my friends (both white) thought it was racist. One of the most interesting things, to me, about their conclusion was the immediate and unquestioned assumption that the author is white.

That is really interesting. I didn't think there was any racist intent, and I thought a lot of the stuff was really funny. But your comment here just made me realize that I also assumed that the blog author is white.

Weird. Introspection time!

Yay!

30 seconds later, I realized that the unconscious reason for this assumption was that some part of me believes that only a white spag would find the quips of (presumably black) children speaking in ghetto-isms funny enough to put on a blog.

Which says something about my own unconscious assumptions, both about blacks and what I think of other white people.

Oh look, another Black Iron Bar! Didn't see you there; here's your pink slip. Your services are no longer required.

I have to admit, I totally assumed the writer is white too, but I think that's more of a function of my experience with hiking and "nature enthusiasts" in general. I used to go camping up in the White Mountains in NH every summer, and northern New England DOES NOT HAVE BLACK PEOPLE. I've got a friend that moved to Boston from Maine, and he's constantly having problems with race - not because he's racist, but because it's a completely alien concept to him.

I grew up in northern New York State, which is similarly super-white. When I moved downstate and into other places, I had more than a few uncomfortable learning experiences (mostly through interactions with other, more race-aware white people, funnily enough) that made me realize what a big deal racism continues to be. It's easy to feel enlightened and racism-free when you grew up without any actual colored people to interact with.

[Triple Zero]

The spelling mistakes are deliberate and are intended to be pronounced as written... I can hear it in my head and it's perfect. Yes, urban kids from poor neighborhoods, mostly black, speaking in a "ghetto" (which in the US is often used synonymously with "poor black neighborhood") vernacular. It's pretty safe to assume that most of them are black.

I  thought it was hilarious and that the kids were clever and funny. Two of my friends (both white) thought it was racist. One of the most interesting things, to me, about their conclusion was the immediate and unquestioned assumption that the author is white.

I did wonder whether the author was black or white, but concluded that there was no evidence pointing to one or the other, or Asian, for that matter. My initial mental picture was white, but that's just my default, because mentally picturing a person of indeterminate skin colour takes some effort Though after I considered it I'm doing exactly that ... which is weird. Kind of like a dream image where you never see someone's face

I really don't think the phonetic spelling is "perfect" though. You can hear it in your head because you know exactly what it sounds like. If it was "perfect" I could too, but there's some inconsistencies that throw me off somehow. Anyway it's just a matter of style and I mostly pointed it out because I was looking at it with an extra critical eye, since you asked whether it's racist. Speaking of style, the all-caps doesn't help either :P

And as you say, most probably it's just a good teacher sharing witty remarks of his kids.

[Faust]

I imagined both the kids and the author as white. In pretty much all my mental pictures any portrayal is white. I don't think there are any impactions to that other than I'm not very imaginative and that I am white (I think).
As a mental exercise for the next week I'm going to imagine both my own self image and any characters in situations I'm in with diverse characters.

Years ago I did the same thing with the mental image of being a woman and I've been less self concious around them ever since.

As an interesting aside the most ethnically diverse mental portrayals I've had have been while masturbating. It's odd that I've never considered it for anything else before.

[Freeky]

The spelling mistakes are deliberate and are intended to be pronounced as written... I can hear it in my head and it's perfect. Yes, urban kids from poor neighborhoods, mostly black, speaking in a "ghetto" (which in the US is often used synonymously with "poor black neighborhood") vernacular. It's pretty safe to assume that most of them are black.

I  thought it was hilarious and that the kids were clever and funny. Two of my friends (both white) thought it was racist. One of the most interesting things, to me, about their conclusion was the immediate and unquestioned assumption that the author is white.

That is really interesting. I didn't think there was any racist intent, and I thought a lot of the stuff was really funny. But your comment here just made me realize that I also assumed that the blog author is white.

Weird. Introspection time!

I thought it was funny, because the vernacular juxtaposed against the content was awesome, but then I wondered if thinking it was funny was me being unconciously racist, and I felt bad.

Also, on assuming the writer is white:  If it isn't made clear to me in the beginning, I assume the speaker/writer is white because I'm white.  If I find out the speaker is not, I'm like "Oh! Well, neat.  Or something."  and then I'm asking the judges if I should be feeling anything other than a blip as my inner narration alters to include this information.  Even then, I forget most times.

I dissected this a long time ago, because I noticed it back then that I always thought that way and was interested.  That's probably my white privilege showing again, though.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

The CotSG person, whom I have known online since 1998, has unfriended me because I insisted that both Gay & Trans rights should both be equally advanced.

Obviously, her being able to throw a self-righteous shit over the issue is more important than any actual progress.  This is of course feeding directly into the hands of people who oppose LGBT rights, as it both splits the effort, and makes LGBT people look like a pack of attention whores...IE, it's just handing the bastards ammunition.

Good riddance.

Why waste your time on someone who is openly against equal rights?

On the other hand, I just got a screeching, towering tirade to which I cannot respond, as I've been blocked.



I think that means I win.

[Wolfgang Absolutus]

What about groups that are trying to end what they term "Israeli Apartheid"? Though it is also a political topic I think it has large implications for race here and into the future. Here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ac1SnQfOfw&feature=related is a little video on the subject. I am inclined to agree with the ending of Israeli apartheid as well as institutionalized racism and oppression anywhere. Though many Israel supporters accuse these groups of antisemitism. What do you dudes think?

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

The CotSG person, whom I have known online since 1998, has unfriended me because I insisted that both Gay & Trans rights should both be equally advanced.

Obviously, her being able to throw a self-righteous shit over the issue is more important than any actual progress.  This is of course feeding directly into the hands of people who oppose LGBT rights, as it both splits the effort, and makes LGBT people look like a pack of attention whores...IE, it's just handing the bastards ammunition.

Good riddance.

Why waste your time on someone who is openly against equal rights?

On the other hand, I just got a screeching, towering tirade to which I cannot respond, as I've been blocked.



I think that means I win.

Definitely. 

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I don't think there's anything unusual about assuming the author is white... I assumed he is black, but he could just as easily be white. I almost never assume someone is my own race, partly because I am a not-totally-common (thought not especially rare) combo. The thing I thought was interesting on the part of those two friends was the assumption that he was white and racist. One of them went so far as to say that he made that assumption "because of demographics", and when I asked him what he meant he explained that because blacks are underrepresented in teaching (true) and on the internet (true) and also in "outdoorsy" type jobs (sounds like made-up bullshit), his assumption was that the teacher was most likely white. There is some validity to that line of thinking, but it requires a lot of assumptions and it seems silly to me to get all fired up thinking someone's being racist without actually knowing anything about them at all.

[Freeky]

Very true.


I heard some talk today about how somewhere, at some restaurant, the people who do the cutting and the chopping and all the prep work are called "Mexicans" and to do this work is to "mexican it."  You slap an ed on the end to make it past tense. 

Now, I really wouldn't like to start making this thread into "Hey, is this racist?"  but that one kind of offended me enough that I would say anything at all to anyone and I'm not sure if I'm being overly sensitive, what with all people gotta work no matter their ethnicity or nationality.

I do not know if there are any surrounding in jokes or circumstances, or even if it continues to happen, only that it did and it was brought up and used in a circumstance where I was aware of it.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Very true.


I heard some talk today about how somewhere, at some restaurant, the people who do the cutting and the chopping and all the prep work are called "Mexicans" and to do this work is to "mexican it."  You slap an ed on the end to make it past tense. 

Now, I really wouldn't like to start making this thread into "Hey, is this racist?"  but that one kind of offended me enough that I would say anything at all to anyone and I'm not sure if I'm being overly sensitive, what with all people gotta work no matter their ethnicity or nationality.

I do not know if there are any surrounding in jokes or circumstances, or even if it continues to happen, only that it did and it was brought up and used in a circumstance where I was aware of it.

Yeah, now, that sounds racist (probably). Mostly because undoubtedly the origin of it is that most kitchen staff actually ARE Mexican these days. Though if it's a kitchen in-joke maybe it's not racist since it's people joking about themselves.

Although my daughter found an illustrated chart of emotions and one of them was "Mexican", and that seemed funny and not racist to me.

Oh, I was just looking up internet demographics and Blacks and Hispanics are no longer underrepresented, in fact they're overrepresented on both Twitter and Facebook, and the percentages are increasing really really fast.

LOOK OUT INTERNET, WE'RE COMING FOR YOUR DAUGHTERS, LOL!

[Freeky]

LOOK OUT INTERNET, WE'RE COMING FOR YOUR DAUGHTERS, LOL!

HIDE YO KIDS HIDE YO WIFE.

[Telarus]

The spelling mistakes are deliberate and are intended to be pronounced as written... I can hear it in my head and it's perfect. Yes, urban kids from poor neighborhoods, mostly black, speaking in a "ghetto" (which in the US is often used synonymously with "poor black neighborhood") vernacular. It's pretty safe to assume that most of them are black.

I  thought it was hilarious and that the kids were clever and funny. Two of my friends (both white) thought it was racist. One of the most interesting things, to me, about their conclusion was the immediate and unquestioned assumption that the author is white.

That is really interesting. I didn't think there was any racist intent, and I thought a lot of the stuff was really funny. But your comment here just made me realize that I also assumed that the blog author is white.

Weird. Introspection time!

Yay!

This I think stems from the human tendency to build fictional characters based on our own body-image. I noticed this in Manga and Anime. In the beginning of these industries the Japanese characters are drawn with a certain exaggerated style (the "big-eyed anime style") which reduces racial distinctiveness and every other culture/race in the series is defined as how it differs from this style. Specifically, if the series was about Japanese people, then those character would get the standard treatment, and the "other" would be different. If it was about German, (or generalized pseudo-European fantasy) then the main population would get the standard treatment, with the "others" differing. Presumably so that the reader would more easily get emotionally invested in the protagonist(s).

I read some research that this was one of the results of being conquered so suddenly and violently by the Caucasians with A Bombs and Warships. The report I did actually focused on the manifestation of huge battle mecha/robots as a fetish-ization of the American naval war-machine (of which Macross and then Evangelion are prime examples), but called out both the battle-mecha-fetish and the "generalizing" of facial traits in anime/maga as some of the cultural traumas of a nation who's mythology so relied upon the Eternal Victory narrative being defeated.

Here's a blog that touches on the manga thing:
http://scienceblogs.com/cognitivedaily/2009/11/anime_film_characters_do_we_pe.php

[Placid Dingo]

If you're interested in that angle Telarus, watch and read up on Akira and Godzilla if you haven't already.

[East Coast Hustle]

Very true.


I heard some talk today about how somewhere, at some restaurant, the people who do the cutting and the chopping and all the prep work are called "Mexicans" and to do this work is to "mexican it."  You slap an ed on the end to make it past tense. 

Now, I really wouldn't like to start making this thread into "Hey, is this racist?"  but that one kind of offended me enough that I would say anything at all to anyone and I'm not sure if I'm being overly sensitive, what with all people gotta work no matter their ethnicity or nationality.

I do not know if there are any surrounding in jokes or circumstances, or even if it continues to happen, only that it did and it was brought up and used in a circumstance where I was aware of it.

Interestingly enough, if it's a good restaurant with serious cooks there's a pretty good chance that's meant as a compliment within the context of professional kitchen culture. Everything else being equal, I'll hire a latino over a white person every time and I know I'm not the only chef who feels that way.

[Cain]

The UK has a very similar thing when it comes to Poles.  Most employers I have spoken to, especially in the services or manufacturing industry, prefer to hire Poles when possible, even if they are only going to be temporary staff, because they're generally see as having a superior work ethic and positive attitude when compared with English workers.

I can't say I'd disagree with that general outlook, either.