Uncomfortable topics: Let's talk about race

[Nephew Twiddleton]

No, you're right on the money. When someone is describing themselves as American, it should only refer to whether or not they're eligible to vote here. It's not a race or an ethnicity. If anything it's the exact opposite. It's a vague blanket culture sure, but a vague one. The only place I'm aware of my Americanness is when I am outside of the United States.

The thing about blanket culture vs race...  Have you noticed after a few generations here, families start looking a little more homogenous?  A little more Americanized features, sort of thing?  Or am I imagining things?

It might be a regional thing. Boston is a major city for recent immigration (always has been). We're always getting new blood, both from around the world, and also from other Americans who move here for either school or employment.

That's probable.

I look different from my mother's family, who've been here since the later half of the 1800s (blight will do that), I look more like my dad's side featurewise.

But I'm thinking about it, and I'm trying to think of the right way to phrase it. I think you and I hit on the same thing, but we're still kinda like, "no, that's not quite it." But I'm going to give it a shot. You think of yourself as Italian and German, even though you have no connection with either of those countries or cultures. I think part of that is that it's easier to identify what your roots are if you're white. You just have to look at your name and figure out at least part of your ancestry. Black people don't really have that, cuz of slavery and shit. They're just black. When a white person identifies primarily as white, they're suddenly calling too much attention to their race, and that makes us uncomfortable. We don't like to think of ourselves as white. I'm Irish, and when I feel like being an asshat, Scottish too. You're German and Italian. That guy over there is a mutt and freely admits it. That lady over there doesn't know what she is, but she's from New Jersey. And I guess it kinda feels like when a person is referring to themselves as white they're intentionally separating themselves from the rest of the human race. When people talk about being American, they mean the same thing, but the emphasis is more on patriotism, but you know that their concept of American is probably specifically white.

Does that sound right?

[Juana]

Does to me, Twid.

I'm still kinda collecting my thoughts on this. Perspectives change over time too.

At this point, I generally think of people along what they self-identify as. As far as white people go, I don't think of them as white, or of whiteness, but I do think of them as this or that, as opposed to, or just like, me. For example, my drummer self-identifies as Italian, and he acts as much as an Italian as I do an Irishman. And yet, he's just as Irish as he is Italian (a quarter). It bothers me when people refer to their background as white. It makes me wonder if they're a crazy racist, since I'm used to white people, no matter how Americanized, identifying with one or two European backgrounds. I just don't like it as a label of any sort, unless it's used as self-mockery.

One of my American Studies teachers talked about this, saying that "white" as a social construct gives preference to people who fit that label and places them at the top of the social hierarchy, which I think makes historical sense.

I'm inclined to think that we here at PD tend to forget the history, since I do know we've talked about this particular aspect of this topic before and a few people had something to say about hyphenated identities and "the right kind of white people".

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

White Americans, from my observation, are indeed (mostly) very uncomfortable being called white, and I think that the reason is because they are not very comfortable with anything that reminds them of race.

White people will also often go to ridiculous lengths to avoid describing someone as black. I'm like, say it, man. Just say it. It is an easily identifiable physical attribute, JUST FUCKING SAY IT. Don't dance around with this "Well, he's about six feet tall, short hair, glasses, likes to wear plaid jackets" crap as if I am seriously going to believe that you haven't noticed he's black.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

White Americans, from my observation, are indeed (mostly) very uncomfortable being called white, and I think that the reason is because they are not very comfortable with anything that reminds them of race.

White people will also often go to ridiculous lengths to avoid describing someone as black. I'm like, say it, man. Just say it. It is an easily identifiable physical attribute, JUST FUCKING SAY IT. Don't dance around with this "Well, he's about six feet tall, short hair, glasses, likes to wear plaid jackets" crap as if I am seriously going to believe that you haven't noticed he's black.

I fully admit to doing that, and having it put that way it sounds utterly ridiculous, unless of course it's a room full of black people.

Same thing happened with the friend that I mentioned a while ago. He was pointing out a mutual friend's brother in a group of 3 blond dudes and one black dude. Went something like this:

Vinny: He's the Aryan looking one.
Me: Uh.... which one?

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

White Americans, from my observation, are indeed (mostly) very uncomfortable being called white, and I think that the reason is because they are not very comfortable with anything that reminds them of race.

White people will also often go to ridiculous lengths to avoid describing someone as black. I'm like, say it, man. Just say it. It is an easily identifiable physical attribute, JUST FUCKING SAY IT. Don't dance around with this "Well, he's about six feet tall, short hair, glasses, likes to wear plaid jackets" crap as if I am seriously going to believe that you haven't noticed he's black.

I fully admit to doing that, and having it put that way it sounds utterly ridiculous, unless of course it's a room full of black people.

Same thing happened with the friend that I mentioned a while ago. He was pointing out a mutual friend's brother in a group of 3 blond dudes and one black dude. Went something like this:

Vinny: He's the Aryan looking one.
Me: Uh.... which one?

I like to sometimes gratuitously describe someone as white when everyone else is white too.

"Hey, I think you work with my friend Todd!"
"Huh... I don't know, what does he look like?"
"Well, he's white... (pause) brown hair, blue eyes, about five foot ten..."

Yeah, it's trolling. But it's fun.

[Roly Poly Oly-Garch]

No, you're right on the money. When someone is describing themselves as American, it should only refer to whether or not they're eligible to vote here. It's not a race or an ethnicity. If anything it's the exact opposite. It's a vague blanket culture sure, but a vague one. The only place I'm aware of my Americanness is when I am outside of the United States.

The thing about blanket culture vs race...  Have you noticed after a few generations here, families start looking a little more homogenous?  A little more Americanized features, sort of thing?  Or am I imagining things?

It might be a regional thing. Boston is a major city for recent immigration (always has been). We're always getting new blood, both from around the world, and also from other Americans who move here for either school or employment.

A big fresh cultural mix tends to keep the tossed salad in effect. A few chunks of carrot tossed into a long steeping melting pot, turns into the melting pot pretty quick.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

White Americans, from my observation, are indeed (mostly) very uncomfortable being called white, and I think that the reason is because they are not very comfortable with anything that reminds them of race.

White people will also often go to ridiculous lengths to avoid describing someone as black. I'm like, say it, man. Just say it. It is an easily identifiable physical attribute, JUST FUCKING SAY IT. Don't dance around with this "Well, he's about six feet tall, short hair, glasses, likes to wear plaid jackets" crap as if I am seriously going to believe that you haven't noticed he's black.

I fully admit to doing that, and having it put that way it sounds utterly ridiculous, unless of course it's a room full of black people.

Same thing happened with the friend that I mentioned a while ago. He was pointing out a mutual friend's brother in a group of 3 blond dudes and one black dude. Went something like this:

Vinny: He's the Aryan looking one.
Me: Uh.... which one?

I like to sometimes gratuitously describe someone as white when everyone else is white too.

"Hey, I think you work with my friend Todd!"
"Huh... I don't know, what does he look like?"
"Well, he's white... (pause) brown hair, blue eyes, about five foot ten..."

Yeah, it's trolling. But it's fun.

[Roly Poly Oly-Garch]

Latino, Mexican, Hispanic, Spanish, Chicano, Mestizo, Puerto-Rican, etc, etc, etc, comes with a whole different world of "label anxiety" (as I believe I may have just demonstrated to a certain extent).

I personally settled on Latino just because the rest of my family always said Spanish, and it was always understood to mean anything but Mexican. Then my more uptight cousins started saying Hispanic but the history behind that word (better than Mexican) turned me off. In response I made it a point to say Mexican in reference to myself, them and every other damned Mexican that couldn't just suck it up.

Then I had to quit that cause it was more or less just not correct, and also I was on to something new to be indignant about. My family didn't come from Mexico. They've actually been right here in this country since before this country was this country, and the one's still living in the Valley speak Spanish almost exclusively. So fuck you very much if I have something not kind to say when I hear "if they're gonna come to this country, they should at least learn the language."

Also, I'm clearly not Puerto-Rican, Honduran, Nicaraguan or from one of those other countries that Mexicans come from, so basically it's Latino for discussion purposes, Chiconkey for descriptive purposes and nothing much for all other purposes cause I'm functionally-white and it doesn't get brought up much.

[hooplala]

White Americans, from my observation, are indeed (mostly) very uncomfortable being called white, and I think that the reason is because they are not very comfortable with anything that reminds them of race.

White people will also often go to ridiculous lengths to avoid describing someone as black. I'm like, say it, man. Just say it. It is an easily identifiable physical attribute, JUST FUCKING SAY IT. Don't dance around with this "Well, he's about six feet tall, short hair, glasses, likes to wear plaid jackets" crap as if I am seriously going to believe that you haven't noticed he's black.

I am actually, personally, totally cool with being described as white.  I don't like Caucasian at all.  I've started to refer to myself publicly as a cracker.... yeah, I'm taking it back.  You should see people's faces when I respond to stupid shit they say with "Cracka, please!".   Hey, if they can say stupid shit, so can I.


Hoopla
-big ol' cracker

[Nephew Twiddleton]

White Americans, from my observation, are indeed (mostly) very uncomfortable being called white, and I think that the reason is because they are not very comfortable with anything that reminds them of race.

White people will also often go to ridiculous lengths to avoid describing someone as black. I'm like, say it, man. Just say it. It is an easily identifiable physical attribute, JUST FUCKING SAY IT. Don't dance around with this "Well, he's about six feet tall, short hair, glasses, likes to wear plaid jackets" crap as if I am seriously going to believe that you haven't noticed he's black.

I am actually, personally, totally cool with being described as white.  I don't like Caucasian at all.  I've started to refer to myself publicly as a cracker.... yeah, I'm taking it back.  You should see people's faces when I respond to stupid shit they say with "Cracka, please!".   Hey, if they can say stupid shit, so can I.


Hoopla
-big ol' cracker

She said white AMERICANS you Canuck bastard! 

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

 

[hooplala]

White Americans, from my observation, are indeed (mostly) very uncomfortable being called white, and I think that the reason is because they are not very comfortable with anything that reminds them of race.

White people will also often go to ridiculous lengths to avoid describing someone as black. I'm like, say it, man. Just say it. It is an easily identifiable physical attribute, JUST FUCKING SAY IT. Don't dance around with this "Well, he's about six feet tall, short hair, glasses, likes to wear plaid jackets" crap as if I am seriously going to believe that you haven't noticed he's black.

I am actually, personally, totally cool with being described as white.  I don't like Caucasian at all.  I've started to refer to myself publicly as a cracker.... yeah, I'm taking it back.  You should see people's faces when I respond to stupid shit they say with "Cracka, please!".   Hey, if they can say stupid shit, so can I.


Hoopla
-big ol' cracker

She said white AMERICANS you Canuck bastard! 

Cracka please.  Yeah, you guys may think you own that name, but naw... I got a receipt and everything. 

[Don Coyote]

White Americans, from my observation, are indeed (mostly) very uncomfortable being called white, and I think that the reason is because they are not very comfortable with anything that reminds them of race.

White people will also often go to ridiculous lengths to avoid describing someone as black. I'm like, say it, man. Just say it. It is an easily identifiable physical attribute, JUST FUCKING SAY IT. Don't dance around with this "Well, he's about six feet tall, short hair, glasses, likes to wear plaid jackets" crap as if I am seriously going to believe that you haven't noticed he's black.

I fully admit to doing that, and having it put that way it sounds utterly ridiculous, unless of course it's a room full of black people.

Same thing happened with the friend that I mentioned a while ago. He was pointing out a mutual friend's brother in a group of 3 blond dudes and one black dude. Went something like this:

Vinny: He's the Aryan looking one.
Me: Uh.... which one?

I like to sometimes gratuitously describe someone as white when everyone else is white too.

"Hey, I think you work with my friend Todd!"
"Huh... I don't know, what does he look like?"
"Well, he's white... (pause) brown hair, blue eyes, about five foot ten..."

Yeah, it's trolling. But it's fun.

I do that do that too. But then again a lot of soldiers I've served with seem to have less issues with calling white people white. Or maybe it's because a lot of my seniors were black.

White Americans, from my observation, are indeed (mostly) very uncomfortable being called white, and I think that the reason is because they are not very comfortable with anything that reminds them of race.

White people will also often go to ridiculous lengths to avoid describing someone as black. I'm like, say it, man. Just say it. It is an easily identifiable physical attribute, JUST FUCKING SAY IT. Don't dance around with this "Well, he's about six feet tall, short hair, glasses, likes to wear plaid jackets" crap as if I am seriously going to believe that you haven't noticed he's black.

I am actually, personally, totally cool with being described as white.  I don't like Caucasian at all.  I've started to refer to myself publicly as a cracker.... yeah, I'm taking it back.  You should see people's faces when I respond to stupid shit they say with "Cracka, please!".   Hey, if they can say stupid shit, so can I.


Hoopla
-big ol' cracker

She said white AMERICANS you Canuck bastard! 

Cracka please.  Yeah, you guys may think you own that name, but naw... I got a receipt and everything. 

[Nephew Twiddleton]

White Americans, from my observation, are indeed (mostly) very uncomfortable being called white, and I think that the reason is because they are not very comfortable with anything that reminds them of race.

White people will also often go to ridiculous lengths to avoid describing someone as black. I'm like, say it, man. Just say it. It is an easily identifiable physical attribute, JUST FUCKING SAY IT. Don't dance around with this "Well, he's about six feet tall, short hair, glasses, likes to wear plaid jackets" crap as if I am seriously going to believe that you haven't noticed he's black.

I am actually, personally, totally cool with being described as white.  I don't like Caucasian at all.  I've started to refer to myself publicly as a cracker.... yeah, I'm taking it back.  You should see people's faces when I respond to stupid shit they say with "Cracka, please!".   Hey, if they can say stupid shit, so can I.


Hoopla
-big ol' cracker

She said white AMERICANS you Canuck bastard! 

Cracka please.  Yeah, you guys may think you own that name, but naw... I got a receipt and everything.

Who gave you the receipt, General Cornwallis? If you guys wanted to be Americans you should have let Benedict Arnold do his thing to Montreal. Then he wouldn't have had to go down in history as a bad guy. And now we're stuck with more rednecks instead of you guys balancing things out and protecting us from Texan politicians. Thanks guys.

[hooplala]

White Americans, from my observation, are indeed (mostly) very uncomfortable being called white, and I think that the reason is because they are not very comfortable with anything that reminds them of race.

White people will also often go to ridiculous lengths to avoid describing someone as black. I'm like, say it, man. Just say it. It is an easily identifiable physical attribute, JUST FUCKING SAY IT. Don't dance around with this "Well, he's about six feet tall, short hair, glasses, likes to wear plaid jackets" crap as if I am seriously going to believe that you haven't noticed he's black.

I am actually, personally, totally cool with being described as white.  I don't like Caucasian at all.  I've started to refer to myself publicly as a cracker.... yeah, I'm taking it back.  You should see people's faces when I respond to stupid shit they say with "Cracka, please!".   Hey, if they can say stupid shit, so can I.


Hoopla
-big ol' cracker

She said white AMERICANS you Canuck bastard! 

Cracka please.  Yeah, you guys may think you own that name, but naw... I got a receipt and everything.

Who gave you the receipt, General Cornwallis? If you guys wanted to be Americans you should have let Benedict Arnold do his thing to Montreal. Then he wouldn't have had to go down in history as a bad guy. And now we're stuck with more rednecks instead of you guys balancing things out and protecting us from Texan politicians. Thanks guys.

I do what I can.