Scottish Independence

[Triple Zero]

I wont deny admitting I kinda hope that devolves into a war.  I am very willing to off David Cameron in the event of a Scottish-English oil war, just give me a uniform, a rank and a serial number.  Quotes from Braveheart while doing so will cost extra.

Interesting thread btw.

Never realized that Scotland is in fact also generally popular in the EU, for me it's just that a lot of awesome people I know from the UK also happen to be Scottish.

Plus everybody knows the Scottish make whiskey and really what has England ever done for us? It's given us Dr Who but what else?

[Pope Pixie Pickle]

The Magna Carta?

I love Scotland, and want to move there. However from the point of view of being a lefty in England, I selfishly hope that they DON'T get independence, because we need them to not vote Tory as they are apt to do, to keep the country from falling into a right wing wasteland, politically. SNP and Labour to a lesser extent are left wing.

At least until I move there, anyway.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

I think the EU and the UK as a former colonial power probably have a greater body of expertise to draw upon than most nations when it comes to this sort of thing.

However, it would still be a tortorously long, painful and difficult process which would be rendered mostly pointless by the virtue of all of us still being in the EU anyway.

Agreed. Britain has claimed quite a bit of the planet over the years. It doesn't hold them any longer... their claim over Scotland or Wales is no more or less legit than their claims over other areas like India and Hong Kong.

At best, they might claim Wales based on welsh support for the rise of the Tudors and the alliances made then. Though that was mostly a minority and mostly because the welsh had been so poorly treated that having a welsh blood line on the throne was a chance to finally become something other than second-class citizens.

Personally, I believe that any UNION of states should have an option for secession.

Well you're wrong there for a start. England and Scotland merged in an act (I can't remember which act) whereby scottish parliament and British parliament became one. It wasn't conquered or enslaved or colonized like other parts of the empire.

I'm less certain on the Welsh history, but to say England dominated Scotland in the same way it dominated Hong Kong and India is just factually incorrect.

You are correct. Scotland did sign itself away as did Wales. In the case of Wales, the act of union was sort of a "join us or remain under our control anyway". I haven't read as much about Scotland, but I thought the options were similar. I could well be wrong.

I think the only state that could ever successfully secede from the union would be Washington. I mean, yeah, it's one of a few states that could survive as a first-world economy on its own but more importantly as soon as US forces tried to mobilize to stop the secession all of their computer systems would mysteriously stop working.

  Thats what they get for using closed source!!

[Cain]

The circumstances were totally different for Scotland.

Scottish kings ruled England for a century preceeding the Acts of Union.  Steps were taken to preserve the Scottish legal code and otherwise put Scotland on an entirely equal legal footing with England, especially in regards to trade.
 
Given there had been a back and forth trade war between England and Scotland, not to mention disagreements about the succession after the death of Queen Anne, the Act of Union was actually a huge compromise for both sides, and dealt effectively with many of the issues arising from personal union, such as the Scottish Parliament doing one thing, the English Parliament doing the exact opposite, and the monarch having to try and get them on the same page.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

The circumstances were totally different for Scotland.

Scottish kings ruled England for a century preceeding the Acts of Union.  Steps were taken to preserve the Scottish legal code and otherwise put Scotland on an entirely equal legal footing with England, especially in regards to trade.
 
Given there had been a back and forth trade war between England and Scotland, not to mention disagreements about the succession after the death of Queen Anne, the Act of Union was actually a huge compromise for both sides, and dealt effectively with many of the issues arising from personal union, such as the Scottish Parliament doing one thing, the English Parliament doing the exact opposite, and the monarch having to try and get them on the same page.

Thanks Cain!

[Nephew Twiddleton]

I wont deny admitting I kinda hope that devolves into a war.  I am very willing to off David Cameron in the event of a Scottish-English oil war, just give me a uniform, a rank and a serial number.  Quotes from Braveheart while doing so will cost extra.

Interesting thread btw.

Never realized that Scotland is in fact also generally popular in the EU, for me it's just that a lot of awesome people I know from the UK also happen to be Scottish.

Plus everybody knows the Scottish make whiskey and really what has England ever done for us? It's given us Dr Who but what else?

New Wave of British Heavy Metal. Gin. Bass Ale. Patrick Stewart.

[East Coast Hustle]

I counter with:

The Beatles. Pimm's. Bass Ale. Russell Brand.

[Triple Zero]

ahem ...

The Dutch physician Franciscus Sylvius is credited with the invention of gin.[7][8] By the mid 17th century, numerous small Dutch and Belgian distillers (some 400 in Amsterdam alone by 1663) had popularized the redistillation of malt spirit or wine with juniper, anise, caraway, coriander, etc.,[9] which were sold in pharmacies and used to treat such medical problems as kidney ailments, lumbago, stomach ailments, gallstones, and gout. It was found in Holland by English troops who were fighting against the Spanish in the Eighty Years War who noticed its calming effects before battle, which is the origin of the term Dutch courage.[citation needed] Gin emerged in England in varying forms as of the early 17th century, and at the time of the Restoration, enjoyed a brief resurgence. When William of Orange, ruler of the Dutch Republic, occupied the British throne with his wife Mary in what has become known as the Glorious Revolution, gin became vastly more popular,[10] particularly in crude, inferior forms, where it was more likely to be flavored with turpentine[citation needed].

So that leaves ... Patrick Stewart?

Oh and of course IRN BRU !!

[East Coast Hustle]

Isn't Irn Bru Scottish?

[Nephew Twiddleton]

ahem ...

The Dutch physician Franciscus Sylvius is credited with the invention of gin.[7][8] By the mid 17th century, numerous small Dutch and Belgian distillers (some 400 in Amsterdam alone by 1663) had popularized the redistillation of malt spirit or wine with juniper, anise, caraway, coriander, etc.,[9] which were sold in pharmacies and used to treat such medical problems as kidney ailments, lumbago, stomach ailments, gallstones, and gout. It was found in Holland by English troops who were fighting against the Spanish in the Eighty Years War who noticed its calming effects before battle, which is the origin of the term Dutch courage.[citation needed] Gin emerged in England in varying forms as of the early 17th century, and at the time of the Restoration, enjoyed a brief resurgence. When William of Orange, ruler of the Dutch Republic, occupied the British throne with his wife Mary in what has become known as the Glorious Revolution, gin became vastly more popular,[10] particularly in crude, inferior forms, where it was more likely to be flavored with turpentine[citation needed].

So that leaves ... Patrick Stewart?

Oh and of course IRN BRU !!

And New Wave of British Heavy Metal, unless you guys invented that too.

[Triple Zero]

Isn't Irn Bru Scottish?

Dunno actually. Had it first time in Edinburgh (got hooked immediately), but it's sold all over the UK.

And New Wave of British Heavy Metal, unless you guys invented that too.

I suppose. Never heard of the term before, which is when I usually assume the Dutch invented it and I'm usually right.

[East Coast Hustle]

NWOBHM doesn't make up for The Beatles.

Especially since without NWOBHM we'd all have been spared from ever having to listen to Metallica.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

NWOBHM doesn't make up for The Beatles.

Especially since without NWOBHM we'd all have been spared from ever having to listen to Metallica.

Rock n roll was pretty cool until the British fucked it all up.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

NWOBHM doesn't make up for The Beatles.

Especially since without NWOBHM we'd all have been spared from ever having to listen to Metallica.

Good point.

And New Wave of British Heavy Metal, unless you guys invented that too.

I suppose. Never heard of the term before, which is when I usually assume the Dutch invented it and I'm usually right.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Wave_of_British_Heavy_Metal

Iron Maiden is probably the best known NWOBHM band.

[Triple Zero]

Yeah I shoulda guessed the "British" part in the name probably meant it was them, but otherwise, if you don't know, best bet is to assume the Dutch came up with it.