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Music Education: HALP

Started by Freeky, January 18, 2012, 08:28:07 PM

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Triple Zero

#30
January 20, 2012, 09:47:25 PM
WAIT, NO ONE MORE THING (I thought I already posted this but then I didn't!)

What ancient music spag ever came up with the idea to call it a "fifth" when you multiply by three and call it a "third" when you multiply by five? Seriously wtf was wrong with him/her?? I bet they thought it was hi-fucking-larious, just like how Maxwell (or was it Faraday) must have been grinning like a maniac when he decided to give the elementary unit of electricity a negative charge so "electron current" runs from negative to positive? :lol: -- ok it didn't exactly go like that and it's completely insignificant and arbitrary, but still kind of counter-intuitive. Yet, flipping the signs in every electro-magnetics textbook formula in the world and most importantly dealing with the mistakes resulting from confusion between "old-style" formulas and "new-style" formulas (such as space shuttles falling from the sky), would make this transition significantly less likely than the US ever transitioning to metrics.
It's just one of those things that are stuck in this reality, like evolving our optic nerve on the wrong side of the retina (D'OH!).
Ex-Soviet Bloc Sexual Attack Swede of Tomorrow™
e-prime disclaimer: let it seem fairly unclear I understand the apparent subjectivity of the above statements. maybe.

INFORMATION SO POWERFUL, YOU ACTUALLY NEED LESS.

Nephew Twiddleton

#31
January 20, 2012, 09:47:28 PM
Gah! Minor scales first. So even though speech patterns are in c major the more sombre type of medieval church music would be viewed from the perspective of its relative minor key which is a.
Strange and Terrible Organ Laminator of Yesterday's Heavy Scene
Sentence or sentence fragment pending

Soy El Vaquero Peludo de Oro

TIM AM I, PRIMARY OF THE EXTRA-ATMOSPHERIC SIMIANS

Nephew Twiddleton

#32
January 20, 2012, 09:49:09 PM
Trip they didnt know what hertz was back then lol. Its the fifth note in the scale. So its the fifth interval.
Strange and Terrible Organ Laminator of Yesterday's Heavy Scene
Sentence or sentence fragment pending

Soy El Vaquero Peludo de Oro

TIM AM I, PRIMARY OF THE EXTRA-ATMOSPHERIC SIMIANS

Freeky

#33
January 20, 2012, 09:53:54 PM
Quote from: Triple Zero on January 20, 2012, 09:37:32 PM


  twelfth_root(2) = 21/12 = 1.059463


I got to this point and I was like "Oh.  OH!!"

Okay, the frequency thing makes sense now.


I was looking at that jazclass.aust.com link LMNO gave me, and from what this lesson shows, the treble clef staff starts at C because that's where the bass clef ends.  Or something.

Am I extrapolating that correctly?

ETA because 4 new posts:  Apparently not.

Also, isn't an octave just the range of eight notes starting from one note and ending at the same note in a higher or lower whatchacallit? 

The Good Reverend Roger

#34
January 20, 2012, 09:54:22 PM
Work Order #34545
Date: 1/20/12

*** Repair damaged vinyl ***

Some spag has pulled back all the vinyl.  Please take a tack hammer, some upholstery tacks, and a 12 gauge loaded with rock salt, and reattach the vinyl.  If anyone stops you, shoot 'em in the ass.

Craftsman Notes:  Too late, boss.  There's a whole room full of bastards tearing the shit up.  I ran out of rock salt.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Freeky

#35
January 20, 2012, 09:57:50 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on January 20, 2012, 09:54:22 PM
Work Order #34545
Date: 1/20/12

*** Repair damaged vinyl ***

Some spag has pulled back all the vinyl.  Please take a tack hammer, some upholstery tacks, and a 12 gauge loaded with rock salt, and reattach the vinyl.  If anyone stops you, shoot 'em in the ass.

Craftsman Notes:  Too late, boss.  There's a whole room full of bastards tearing the shit up.  I ran out of rock salt.

What?  :lol: 



(That's a Whaut?, by the way, not a What?)

The Good Reverend Roger

#36
January 20, 2012, 09:59:45 PM
Just yankin' your chains, because I'm bored.   :lol:

I feel like a plumber at a astrophysicist convention.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

The Good Reverend Roger

#37
January 20, 2012, 10:03:36 PM
Well, I'm out.  See you guys in 9 days or so.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Freeky

#38
January 20, 2012, 10:07:12 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on January 20, 2012, 09:59:45 PM
Just yankin' your chains, because I'm bored.   :lol:

I feel like a plumber at a astrophysicist convention.

Well, me too a bit.  :lol:

Nephew Twiddleton

#39
January 20, 2012, 10:11:11 PM
Im a musician and i stopped unserstanding what was going on once frequency rates started happening. :lol: i knew a was 440 but that was it.
Strange and Terrible Organ Laminator of Yesterday's Heavy Scene
Sentence or sentence fragment pending

Soy El Vaquero Peludo de Oro

TIM AM I, PRIMARY OF THE EXTRA-ATMOSPHERIC SIMIANS

Triple Zero

#40
January 20, 2012, 10:12:42 PM
Huh Roger where are you going for 9 days? (if you mentioned it in another thread, nvm, I'll get to it)

BTW I feel like the programmer of Super Mario level design at a plumber's convention.



Twid

But we're talking about the starting note of a scale here, so that implies an absolute pitch.

That doesn't follow with human speech, how can that be, with individuals speaking at very different base pitches depending on age, gender and individuality? Remember how your voice changed in pitch during puberty? If your base pitch was a C before and after, that means you shifted exactly one octave interval.

It also means that if every human being speaks in C major, allowing for different base pitches, those base pitches must be exactly a whole number of octaves apart, or they won't be C's anymore.

Now I don't know about you in puberty, but I'm fairly sure that the latter is not the case.


Quote from: Billy the Twid on January 20, 2012, 09:49:09 PM
Trip they didnt know what hertz was back then lol. Its the fifth note in the scale. So its the fifth interval.

Ok. But this is not about Hertz, but about frequency ratios. It's not about what the absolute frequency of something is, but about what the ratio is between two frequencies. Pythagoras already knew about that, cause he built his scales based on that.

You make the string half as short --> frequency gets twice as high
Make the string 1/3rd as short --> frequency x 3 as high

Knowing that, I can imagine mistaking "half" for "double" or "third" for "triple" because it's just which way you look at it, but I can't imagine mistaking "three" for "five" and vice versa.

But okay, I'll accept the "fifth note in the scale" explanation, I'll just have to ponder it for a while before it "clicks". I still want to know what smart-ass came up with this :P

I mean check this awesome alphabet numbering system I just came up with:

A - 1
B - 4
C - 7
D - 8
E - 10
F - 14
G - 17

See because my civilization's time-stream has not yet discovered advanced concepts such as "sanity" or "Keep It Simple, Stupid", I'm not counting the characters, but the number of the first stroke of each character. Therefore, obviously, the distance between A and C is 5 (since you obviously don't count the first and the last strokes but only those in between).

Ehhhhh sorry. I'm just spouting bullshit and being purposefully dumb/difficult now :) I perfectly understand that some things are arbitrary because convention helps in communication.

Let's talk about actual music theory :)

(though I will make a point of figuring out who came up with this shit, so I can snicker about their short-sightedness, musical genius notwithstanding)
Ex-Soviet Bloc Sexual Attack Swede of Tomorrow™
e-prime disclaimer: let it seem fairly unclear I understand the apparent subjectivity of the above statements. maybe.

INFORMATION SO POWERFUL, YOU ACTUALLY NEED LESS.

Nephew Twiddleton

#41
January 20, 2012, 10:19:50 PM
Hey trip! I know something about the dutch that you don't! Check out influence by music experience in the wikipedia article for absolute pitch. Though now it becomes more of a chicken and the egg sort of thing.
Strange and Terrible Organ Laminator of Yesterday's Heavy Scene
Sentence or sentence fragment pending

Soy El Vaquero Peludo de Oro

TIM AM I, PRIMARY OF THE EXTRA-ATMOSPHERIC SIMIANS

Triple Zero

#42
January 20, 2012, 10:54:09 PM
Cool! Checking that out. Got the PDF now, it's Swedish research, but it's about the Dutch. Not as cool as the orange carrot thing, though (still my favourite feat of Dutch awesome :) ).
Ex-Soviet Bloc Sexual Attack Swede of Tomorrow™
e-prime disclaimer: let it seem fairly unclear I understand the apparent subjectivity of the above statements. maybe.

INFORMATION SO POWERFUL, YOU ACTUALLY NEED LESS.

East Coast Hustle

#43
January 21, 2012, 01:32:58 AM
I have to stop reading this thread. My head feels funny and I think I'm starting to get angry at music.
Rabid Colostomy Hole Jammer of the Coming Apocalypse™

The Devil is in the details; God is in the nuance.


Some yahoo yelled at me, saying 'GIVE ME LIBERTY OR GIVE ME DEATH', and I thought, "I'm feeling generous today.  Why not BOTH?"

Freeky

#44
January 21, 2012, 01:37:36 AM
Quote from: Fuck You One-Eye on January 21, 2012, 01:32:58 AM
I have to stop reading this thread. My head feels funny and I think I'm starting to get angry at music.

Why?
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