[Splintered] Manipulation: What defines it?

[Q. G. Pennyworth]

I try to keep in mind how easy it is for people to re-write or screw up their own memories without realizing it. The Boyfriend has an awesome story about a wedding he went to, and literally not one part of it actually happened the way he remembers.*  Also, I happen to have the kind of shitty memory where I can say something to someone and be asked immediately afterwards what I just said and have no fucking clue. So I guess maybe I'm more forgiving than I ought to be just from being fucked up myself.



*But it's an awesome story, and the groom in question has agreed that it's far more entertaining to tell it that way

That's symptomatic of a disorder.
http://www.halcyon.com/jmashmun/npd/traits.html

"The most telling thing that narcissists do is contradict themselves. They will do this virtually in the same sentence, without even stopping to take a breath. It can be trivial (e.g., about what they want for lunch) or it can be serious (e.g., about whether or not they love you). When you ask them which one they mean, they'll deny ever saying the first one, though it may literally have been only seconds since they said it -- really, how could you think they'd ever have said that? You need to have your head examined! They will contradict FACTS. They will lie to you about things that you did together. They will misquote you to yourself. If you disagree with them, they'll say you're lying, making stuff up, or are crazy. "

I'm hoping you didn't just internet diagnose me with anything.

[Roly Poly Oly-Garch]

I try to keep in mind how easy it is for people to re-write or screw up their own memories without realizing it. The Boyfriend has an awesome story about a wedding he went to, and literally not one part of it actually happened the way he remembers.*  Also, I happen to have the kind of shitty memory where I can say something to someone and be asked immediately afterwards what I just said and have no fucking clue. So I guess maybe I'm more forgiving than I ought to be just from being fucked up myself.



*But it's an awesome story, and the groom in question has agreed that it's far more entertaining to tell it that way

That's symptomatic of a disorder.
http://www.halcyon.com/jmashmun/npd/traits.html

"The most telling thing that narcissists do is contradict themselves. They will do this virtually in the same sentence, without even stopping to take a breath. It can be trivial (e.g., about what they want for lunch) or it can be serious (e.g., about whether or not they love you). When you ask them which one they mean, they'll deny ever saying the first one, though it may literally have been only seconds since they said it -- really, how could you think they'd ever have said that? You need to have your head examined! They will contradict FACTS. They will lie to you about things that you did together. They will misquote you to yourself. If you disagree with them, they'll say you're lying, making stuff up, or are crazy. "

I'm hoping you didn't just internet diagnose me with anything.

That's how I got Space Tourrette's. It's just like regular Tourrette's 'cept in space no one can hear you COCKLIPS.

[AnnaMaeBollocks]

Of course not.
Your bf is exhibiting a symptom though. Which isn't a diagnosis but it's a pain in the ass, I lived with somebody who revied everything.

[Q. G. Pennyworth]

Of course not.
Your bf is exhibiting a symptom though. Which isn't a diagnosis but it's a pain in the ass, I lived with somebody who revied everything.

There are lots of things that can cause that particular symptom. We've already got a good handle on the things that are wrong with our brains, and it's kind of insulting to drop the "narcissist" diagnosis, even as a possibility, on someone you know nothing about.

[AnnaMaeBollocks]

Of course not.
Your bf is exhibiting a symptom though. Which isn't a diagnosis but it's a pain in the ass, I lived with somebody who revied everything.

There are lots of things that can cause that particular symptom. We've already got a good handle on the things that are wrong with our brains, and it's kind of insulting to drop the "narcissist" diagnosis, even as a possibility, on someone you know nothing about.

Sorry. Thought you wanted input.

[navkat]

I'm not insulted. I know what was meant.

Yes, revisionist truth patterns concern me as being a little more serious than poor self-esteem issues.

[AnnaMaeBollocks]

Yeah, it's a red flag. I could've worded it better.

[Q. G. Pennyworth]

I'm not insulted. I know what was meant.

Yes, revisionist truth patterns concern me as being a little more serious than poor self-esteem issues.

Yeah, in your case it sounds like he did these things and was also a dick, which is a very important distinction

[navkat]

Yeah. I'm not sure if it was deliberate. I mean, I suspect it is but in a completely "conveniently unaware" sort of way. I don't know. I've been puzzling for a while now about how someone can flip shit around like that without hesitation but at the same time, try to pass themselves off as uber-sensitive and caring and ethical unless it's deliberate.

[Roly Poly Oly-Garch]

Yeah. I'm not sure if it was deliberate. I mean, I suspect it is but in a completely "conveniently unaware" sort of way. I don't know. I've been puzzling for a while now about how someone can flip shit around like that without hesitation but at the same time, try to pass themselves off as uber-sensitive and caring and ethical unless it's deliberate.

Habitually, compulsively, pathologically...

When a person's got no sense of self worth, they rely inordinately on validation from other people. Probably started learning how to get it before they learned how to walk. Never fills the hole though, just digs it deeper. It's not about passing themselves off as sensitive, caring and ethical, it's about feeling sensitive, caring and ethical because someone else sees them that way. Never works. Thus the volatility. If they're not feeling validated, you must not be doing enough validating. Until they've deconstructed that shit, it's just automatic.

Deliberate types--sociopaths--could give a fuck about all that. If they want you to trust them, to rely on them, it's to turn you out, to ride you into the ground, to torture and abuse you. Having control is all that matters. Their brains are on a level that treats people as toys or tools, consciously. Kind of PUA, except waiting 3 days to call isn't going to better the chances of a "Charlie is Jesus" result.

I've known a lot of fucked up dysfunctional manipulative people (myself included). To my knowledge, I've met 4 sociopaths. I stay away from the habitual one's because they can suck me in before I know what happened. I get right up in the face of the deliberate one's and let them know what will happen if they get close to anyone I know...or see...