Family of Florida boy killed by Neighborhood Watch seeks arrest

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I'm guessing this one should depend on whether the kid was running away or not. The article says the dog started barking, generally burglars will take off when that happens. I can see assuming somebody is armed and/or psycho if the dog doesn't scare them off. But if the kid was running away anyway, there's no reason to shoot.

Also in most places it's COMPLETELY illegal to shoot a person in the back. Like, no question about it, shooting a person who is running away is FUCKED UP.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

This does raise a lot of questions, which hopefully will get sorted. Like, why was the kid in the yard? He was clearly trespassing, and maybe he was planning on committing a burglary. Or, maybe he was just being an idiotic kid, it's hard to know. Climbing a gate to break into a stranger's car seems REALLY exceptionally stupid, even for a 14-year-old. Not trying to leave when the dog barks, also stupid. Did the kid know the guy was there or did he shoot him without warning? I know that if someone was in my house I would probably shoot without giving warning, but not if they were in my driveway. I feel like that's a really important distinction, because if they were in my house I would feel like I was in danger, but if they were in my driveway I could just as easily shout out the window that I had called the cops and they better get the fuck out of there, right from the safety of my own house with locked doors.

Shooting a prowler OUTSIDE is definitely less cut-and-dried than shooting a prowler INSIDE.

A huge issue that concerns me is the growing idea that it's OK to shoot people to defend your property. That's a very dangerous place to go, because it leads directly to a de facto death penalty for thieves, and we should all know the fundamental determining factors behind petty theft. If it becomes OK to shoot car prowlers, how far are we from shooting people going through our recycling for bottles? It just barely falls short of declaring open season on poor and homeless people. "I thought he was stealing, your honor".

Hopefully the kid won't die, and he and his friend will both be able to answer some questions.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Fuck: http://www.kwch.com/kwch-jab-one-killed-one-hurt-in-pratt-shooting-20130725,0,1589065.story

(PRATT, Kan.)—

A pregnant woman was shot to death and a witness says the man who tried to shield her from the bullets is in the hospital.  The shooting happened in Pratt Wednesday night near Ninnescah and Blaine.

"The only thing I can think of is sitting there and watching the woman just die. And he was just laying there, I was holding his hand the whole time," said Zachary Wright.

Wright witnessed the shooting. His brother Brandon Wright was shot and he held his hand until help arrived.  Wright says his brother Brandon will likely be paralyzed from the waist down.

Wright says he and the two victims were walking in front of a house, where a man was yelling racial slurs.  He says the man demanded that they get off his property, but he says they were on the sidewalk.  That's when a fight started between his brother and the man.

"They started to scuffle. And then the guy got loose and went inside. When he came back out he had a gun in his hand.  I said, 'Run, Brandon, there's a gun. Run.'"

He says Brandon turned to protect the pregnant woman.

"He protected her. Yeah, he didn't want her to get shot. He didn't have a chance to run.  And he ended up getting shot four times in the back. And then she got shot in the head, and so she's dead," he said.

[Bu🤠ns]

This does raise a lot of questions, which hopefully will get sorted. Like, why was the kid in the yard? He was clearly trespassing, and maybe he was planning on committing a burglary. Or, maybe he was just being an idiotic kid, it's hard to know. Climbing a gate to break into a stranger's car seems REALLY exceptionally stupid, even for a 14-year-old. Not trying to leave when the dog barks, also stupid. Did the kid know the guy was there or did he shoot him without warning? I know that if someone was in my house I would probably shoot without giving warning, but not if they were in my driveway. I feel like that's a really important distinction, because if they were in my house I would feel like I was in danger, but if they were in my driveway I could just as easily shout out the window that I had called the cops and they better get the fuck out of there, right from the safety of my own house with locked doors.

Shooting a prowler OUTSIDE is definitely less cut-and-dried than shooting a prowler INSIDE.

A huge issue that concerns me is the growing idea that it's OK to shoot people to defend your property. That's a very dangerous place to go, because it leads directly to a de facto death penalty for thieves, and we should all know the fundamental determining factors behind petty theft. If it becomes OK to shoot car prowlers, how far are we from shooting people going through our recycling for bottles? It just barely falls short of declaring open season on poor and homeless people. "I thought he was stealing, your honor".

Hopefully the kid won't die, and he and his friend will both be able to answer some questions.

This is the thing right here.  When I was a kid my friends and I would run around the neighborhood busting through people's lawns and shit.  We'd never vandalize or had any ill intention.  We'd often play capture the flag and wear our BDUs.

Granted, this isn't New Orleans but that's hardly the point.  I can't think of any reason why someone would think it's okay to shoot anybody outside unless it's absolutely unambiguous that the person intends harm. 

[Eater of Clowns]

I'm not okay with killing to protect property because the implication then becomes that STUFF is more valuable than LIVES.

And it reminds me of the old joke:
"Would you have sex with someone for $1,000,000?"
"Uh, sure I guess."
"Would you have sex with someone for $1?"
"God, no, what kind of person do you think I am?"
"Well we've established what kind of person you are, now we're just haggling on the price."

What amount of property is worth killing a person over? Your car? How nice of a car? How about your wallet? A bunch of old DVDs?

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

This does raise a lot of questions, which hopefully will get sorted. Like, why was the kid in the yard? He was clearly trespassing, and maybe he was planning on committing a burglary. Or, maybe he was just being an idiotic kid, it's hard to know. Climbing a gate to break into a stranger's car seems REALLY exceptionally stupid, even for a 14-year-old. Not trying to leave when the dog barks, also stupid. Did the kid know the guy was there or did he shoot him without warning? I know that if someone was in my house I would probably shoot without giving warning, but not if they were in my driveway. I feel like that's a really important distinction, because if they were in my house I would feel like I was in danger, but if they were in my driveway I could just as easily shout out the window that I had called the cops and they better get the fuck out of there, right from the safety of my own house with locked doors.

Shooting a prowler OUTSIDE is definitely less cut-and-dried than shooting a prowler INSIDE.

A huge issue that concerns me is the growing idea that it's OK to shoot people to defend your property. That's a very dangerous place to go, because it leads directly to a de facto death penalty for thieves, and we should all know the fundamental determining factors behind petty theft. If it becomes OK to shoot car prowlers, how far are we from shooting people going through our recycling for bottles? It just barely falls short of declaring open season on poor and homeless people. "I thought he was stealing, your honor".

Hopefully the kid won't die, and he and his friend will both be able to answer some questions.

This.

Taking a life to preserve another life, I can see that. Taking a life to preserve a car stereo, FUCK no.

[Left]

I'm guessing this one should depend on whether the kid was running away or not. The article says the dog started barking, generally burglars will take off when that happens. I can see assuming somebody is armed and/or psycho if the dog doesn't scare them off. But if the kid was running away anyway, there's no reason to shoot.

http://www.legis.state.la.us/lss/lss.asp?doc=78336

§19.  Use of force or violence in defense

A.  The use of force or violence upon the person of another is justifiable when committed for the purpose of preventing a forcible offense against the person or a forcible offense or trespass against property in a person's lawful possession, provided that the force or violence used must be reasonable and apparently necessary to prevent such offense, and that this Section shall not apply where the force or violence results in a homicide.

B.  For the purposes of this Section, there shall be a presumption that a person lawfully inside a dwelling, place of business, or motor vehicle held a reasonable belief that the use of force or violence was necessary to prevent unlawful entry thereto, or to compel an unlawful intruder to leave the premises or motor vehicle, if both of the following occur:

(1)  The person against whom the force or violence was used was in the process of unlawfully and forcibly entering or had unlawfully and forcibly entered the dwelling, place of business, or motor vehicle.

(2)  The person who used force or violence knew or had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry was occurring or had occurred.

C.  A person who is not engaged in unlawful activity and who is in a place where he or she has a right to be shall have no duty to retreat before using force or violence as provided for in this Section and may stand his or her ground and meet force with force.

D.  No finder of fact shall be permitted to consider the possibility of retreat as a factor in determining whether or not the person who used force or violence in defense of his person or property had a reasonable belief that force or violence was reasonable and apparently necessary to prevent a forcible offense or to prevent the unlawful entry.

I think the law allows what he did, if I'm reading it correctly.

Fuck: http://www.kwch.com/kwch-jab-one-killed-one-hurt-in-pratt-shooting-20130725,0,1589065.story

(PRATT, Kan.)—

A pregnant woman was shot to death and a witness says the man who tried to shield her from the bullets is in the hospital.  The shooting happened in Pratt Wednesday night near Ninnescah and Blaine.

"The only thing I can think of is sitting there and watching the woman just die. And he was just laying there, I was holding his hand the whole time," said Zachary Wright.

Wright witnessed the shooting. His brother Brandon Wright was shot and he held his hand until help arrived.  Wright says his brother Brandon will likely be paralyzed from the waist down.

Wright says he and the two victims were walking in front of a house, where a man was yelling racial slurs.  He says the man demanded that they get off his property, but he says they were on the sidewalk.  That's when a fight started between his brother and the man.

"They started to scuffle. And then the guy got loose and went inside. When he came back out he had a gun in his hand.  I said, 'Run, Brandon, there's a gun. Run.'"

He says Brandon turned to protect the pregnant woman.

"He protected her. Yeah, he didn't want her to get shot. He didn't have a chance to run.  And he ended up getting shot four times in the back. And then she got shot in the head, and so she's dead," he said.

That's fucked up. Racially-motivated homicide.

Something I learned in Rent-a-cop class:  It's not only a horribly shitty thing to do-kill to protect property...it lowers the hell out of your house value.
People are really weirded out if there was a shooting death on the property.
...And I think most states require disclosure to prospective buyers.

[Junkenstein]

I'm not okay with killing to protect property because the implication then becomes that STUFF is more valuable than LIVES.

And it reminds me of the old joke:
"Would you have sex with someone for $1,000,000?"
"Uh, sure I guess."
"Would you have sex with someone for $1?"
"God, no, what kind of person do you think I am?"
"Well we've established what kind of person you are, now we're just haggling on the price."

What amount of property is worth killing a person over? Your car? How nice of a car? How about your wallet? A bunch of old DVDs?

So much this.

[Left]

I'm not okay with killing to protect property because the implication then becomes that STUFF is more valuable than LIVES.

And it reminds me of the old joke:
"Would you have sex with someone for $1,000,000?"
"Uh, sure I guess."
"Would you have sex with someone for $1?"
"God, no, what kind of person do you think I am?"
"Well we've established what kind of person you are, now we're just haggling on the price."

What amount of property is worth killing a person over? Your car? How nice of a car? How about your wallet? A bunch of old DVDs?

So much this.

  If I don't have a car, I have no job. 
Stealing my hoopty would be a direct attack on my livelihood.
No it's not theft insured, because I'm frigging poor.

...I doubt I'd shoot the person, even if I had the gun here.

If I caught them in the act though, I would lose it in rage, and they'd likely wind up in the hospital.

[Doktor Howl]

CALLED IT.

http://ivn.us/penigma/2013/07/25/george-zimmermans-heroic-car-crash-rescue-appears-to-be-a-fraud/

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

CALLED IT.

http://ivn.us/penigma/2013/07/25/george-zimmermans-heroic-car-crash-rescue-appears-to-be-a-fraud/

Yeah, ALLL signs point to fraud. As usual, you were spot-on. 

[Salty]

Unsurprising, yet Jesus Fucking Christ.

[Left]

CALLED IT.

http://ivn.us/penigma/2013/07/25/george-zimmermans-heroic-car-crash-rescue-appears-to-be-a-fraud/

Damn, what a giant flaming sack of monkey shit Zimmerman is.

[Doktor Howl]

Now I've done it.

Spoken prophecy.

Excuse me, I have to go beat someone back into his grave.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

What did occur was that an accident occurred where a car slid on it's side into a median. People at the scene called 911, which went to the Sanford office of the Seminole County Sheriff's Office. BEFORE responding to the 911 call, News Ball.com reports that Seminole Sheriff's Dept. Officer Patrick Rehder, a self-styled friend and supporter of Zimmerman, contacted Zimmerman by cell phone directing him to go to the accident so as to appear to be a hero.