Author Topic: Any relevance for religion?  (Read 20863 times)

Nephew Twiddleton

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Re: Any relevance for religion?
« Reply #90 on: March 19, 2012, 06:43:02 pm »
Because most humans are very disturbed when they can't figure out the what's,why's, and how's of the universe.

Religious beliefs fill in those gaps.

It's been that way forever. 

When we can't figure out why something is, we make up a story to explain it. 

I think if humans were more prone to feeling at ease with their inconsequential existence, there would be less need for religion.

I hadn't seen anywhere else in this thread pointed out that Science doesn't really address the 'WHY', but only the 'what' and the 'how'....

Religion is what attempts to answer the 'WHY'.
Perhaps there are some outliers that simply do not care about this question.  they wouldn't need religion.
Perhaps most have a burning desire that a dangling 'WHY' be addressed, and since the only thing that seems to fill that gap is the story that their folks raised them up with, they stick with it.  they need the question answered, and the religion fits the bill.
Perhaps some see the answer given by that story as False, and either fall into some other religion, or they find a way to live with a dangling 'WHY' without much grief.  they wouldn't need religion, either. (but i miss it sometimes)

I'd pointed out something similar earlier- that religion gives the universe some sort of purpose and plotline.
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Re: Any relevance for religion?
« Reply #91 on: March 19, 2012, 06:47:55 pm »
Because most humans are very disturbed when they can't figure out the what's,why's, and how's of the universe.

Religious beliefs fill in those gaps.

It's been that way forever. 

When we can't figure out why something is, we make up a story to explain it. 

I think if humans were more prone to feeling at ease with their inconsequential existence, there would be less need for religion.

I hadn't seen anywhere else in this thread pointed out that Science doesn't really address the 'WHY', but only the 'what' and the 'how'....

Religion is what attempts to answer the 'WHY'.
Perhaps there are some outliers that simply do not care about this question.  they wouldn't need religion.
Perhaps most have a burning desire that a dangling 'WHY' be addressed, and since the only thing that seems to fill that gap is the story that their folks raised them up with, they stick with it.  they need the question answered, and the religion fits the bill.
Perhaps some see the answer given by that story as False, and either fall into some other religion, or they find a way to live with a dangling 'WHY' without much grief.  they wouldn't need religion, either. (but i miss it sometimes)

Yeah.  In fact I fell out of my Baptist upbringing when I became thoroughly unsatisfied that it was God's plan that somebody I loved died so young. 

Another thing to consider in all of this, is that a lack of Religion doesn't equate with a lack of faith.  Maybe it isn't a faith in a personified deity, but do people who shirk religion end up, maybe unconsciously, attaching to some other kind of faith or belief system that helps them feel at peace with their existence. 
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Kai

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Re: Any relevance for religion?
« Reply #92 on: March 19, 2012, 06:48:16 pm »
Well, here's the deal:  Religion is obviously relevant, and probably necessary, because the great majority of the world's population has been engaging in it for thousands and thousands of years.

WHY it is so important is another story.  All we can say for certain is that people engage in it...That's undeniable.  So, the question should be "Why is religion relevant and so seemingly important to most people?"

Replace "religion" in the first statement with "slavery". It assumes the necessity of something which people can live without.

Ok, first off... slaveryReally?

Secondly, your statement assumes that Religion (or the functional equivalent) actually is something people can live without (also implied - they can live without it and still be happy/fulfilled/complete/etc).

It's an excellent example of something the great majority of the world's population has been engaging in for thousands of years, yet it's very doubtful anyone around here would claim it to be an necessity. If you read into it further than that, then that's your prerogative.

I am a people. I live without religion. Unless of course I am /not/ a people. Or I don't live without religion. No /true/ normal person could live without religion, or some sort of no true Scottsman fallacy like that.
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Re: Any relevance for religion?
« Reply #93 on: March 19, 2012, 06:50:29 pm »
oops. missed it, Twid.
 :oops:

So, Kai.
do you see the 'why' as simply irrelevant or meaningless?  do you simply live with it as an unanswerable question?  assuming you have not found a way to answer the question tidily, does it cause you any grief?

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Re: Any relevance for religion?
« Reply #94 on: March 19, 2012, 06:51:10 pm »
Well, here's the deal:  Religion is obviously relevant, and probably necessary, because the great majority of the world's population has been engaging in it for thousands and thousands of years.

WHY it is so important is another story.  All we can say for certain is that people engage in it...That's undeniable.  So, the question should be "Why is religion relevant and so seemingly important to most people?"

Replace "religion" in the first statement with "slavery". It assumes the necessity of something which people can live without.

Ok, first off... slaveryReally?

Secondly, your statement assumes that Religion (or the functional equivalent) actually is something people can live without (also implied - they can live without it and still be happy/fulfilled/complete/etc).

It's an excellent example of something the great majority of the world's population has been engaging in for thousands of years, yet it's very doubtful anyone around here would claim it to be an necessity. If you read into it further than that, then that's your prerogative.

I am a people. I live without religion. Unless of course I am /not/ a people. Or I don't live without religion. No /true/ normal person could live without religion, or some sort of no true Scottsman fallacy like that.

That's why religion's more like beer. People have been doing it for thousands of years, it's not necessary but people like it so it's probably not going anywhere.

You may be quite satisfied with AA, but that doesn't mean the tavern is going to have any lack of business on the weekend.
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Re: Any relevance for religion?
« Reply #95 on: March 19, 2012, 06:52:00 pm »
Well, here's the deal:  Religion is obviously relevant, and probably necessary, because the great majority of the world's population has been engaging in it for thousands and thousands of years.

WHY it is so important is another story.  All we can say for certain is that people engage in it...That's undeniable.  So, the question should be "Why is religion relevant and so seemingly important to most people?"

Replace "religion" in the first statement with "slavery". It assumes the necessity of something which people can live without.

Okay.  I'm just saying what IS going on. 

But since that seems to be unpopular, I will bow out.

Actually, the really unpopular statements in this thread are mine. And I would rather you wouldn't take my statements as some envisioned slight on your character, as they were not.
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Re: Any relevance for religion?
« Reply #96 on: March 19, 2012, 06:52:00 pm »
oops. missed it, Twid.
 :oops:

All good boyo, it was a few days ago that it was posted anyway.
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Re: Any relevance for religion?
« Reply #97 on: March 19, 2012, 06:52:46 pm »
Kai, do you also live without (as I made sure to include) "the functional equivalent" to religion?

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Re: Any relevance for religion?
« Reply #98 on: March 19, 2012, 06:52:57 pm »
Well, here's the deal:  Religion is obviously relevant, and probably necessary, because the great majority of the world's population has been engaging in it for thousands and thousands of years.

WHY it is so important is another story.  All we can say for certain is that people engage in it...That's undeniable.  So, the question should be "Why is religion relevant and so seemingly important to most people?"

Replace "religion" in the first statement with "slavery". It assumes the necessity of something which people can live without.

Religion's more like beer. You don't need it and some people are better off without it, but try convincing people that pint on the table isn't relevant.

It's relevant to the people who believe in it. 
Morrissey is the crown prince of sad.  He teaches us that deaf/mute girls are terrible at telling you that a disaster is occurring, and that when you get famous, all your old friends hate you for buying new tee shirts.  Morrissey fans are best known for hugging their legs and biting their knees in the shower, over a girl that dumped them rather than learn their name, or binge-eating an entire pizza and then throwing it up on their man-boobs in the bath tub, while they squeeze their  testicles until they remember that they are worthless and do not deserve love.

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Re: Any relevance for religion?
« Reply #99 on: March 19, 2012, 06:55:14 pm »
Well, here's the deal:  Religion is obviously relevant, and probably necessary, because the great majority of the world's population has been engaging in it for thousands and thousands of years.

WHY it is so important is another story.  All we can say for certain is that people engage in it...That's undeniable.  So, the question should be "Why is religion relevant and so seemingly important to most people?"

Replace "religion" in the first statement with "slavery". It assumes the necessity of something which people can live without.

Religion's more like beer. You don't need it and some people are better off without it, but try convincing people that pint on the table isn't relevant.

It's relevant to the people who believe in it.

Exactly. I think it's difficult to make the argument that a set of concepts is irrelevant, especially if most of the world accepts those concepts as true (at least for them).
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Re: Any relevance for religion?
« Reply #100 on: March 19, 2012, 06:55:44 pm »
Kai, do you also live without (as I made sure to include) "the functional equivalent" to religion?

I don't think anyone has defined "the functional equivalent".
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Re: Any relevance for religion?
« Reply #101 on: March 19, 2012, 06:56:15 pm »
I thought I had, upthread.  Lemme go look.

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Re: Any relevance for religion?
« Reply #102 on: March 19, 2012, 06:57:20 pm »
Well, here's the deal:  Religion is obviously relevant, and probably necessary, because the great majority of the world's population has been engaging in it for thousands and thousands of years.

WHY it is so important is another story.  All we can say for certain is that people engage in it...That's undeniable.  So, the question should be "Why is religion relevant and so seemingly important to most people?"

Replace "religion" in the first statement with "slavery". It assumes the necessity of something which people can live without.

Religion's more like beer. You don't need it and some people are better off without it, but try convincing people that pint on the table isn't relevant.

It's relevant to the people who believe in it.

I agree that religion is relevant. I asked if it was necessary.
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Re: Any relevance for religion?
« Reply #103 on: March 19, 2012, 06:58:05 pm »
Well, here's the deal:  Religion is obviously relevant, and probably necessary, because the great majority of the world's population has been engaging in it for thousands and thousands of years.

WHY it is so important is another story.  All we can say for certain is that people engage in it...That's undeniable.  So, the question should be "Why is religion relevant and so seemingly important to most people?"

Replace "religion" in the first statement with "slavery". It assumes the necessity of something which people can live without.

Okay.  I'm just saying what IS going on. 

But since that seems to be unpopular, I will bow out.

Actually, the really unpopular statements in this thread are mine. And I would rather you wouldn't take my statements as some envisioned slight on your character, as they were not.

I wasn't.

What is upsetting me here, Kai, is that you seem to be operating in The World As Kai Would Prefer It, rather than The World As It Actually is.

Religion is of course relevant to the people who believe in it, and we've had religion approximately as long as we've been recognizably human.  It's not a fad, like hoola hoops.  The fact is, the majority of humanity needs it enough to put up with its various down sides.  This is readily observable.  The data is pretty much self-evident.

But what's going on here, is that you are trying to persuade us that it is not "necessary" (ie, the slavery argument).  Most people here, I think, do not require it.  But to say that it is not "relevant" in the world at large is hiding your head in the sand, in the exact same manner that fundamentalists claim that the fossil record isn't "relevant" when it comes to the origin of our species.

Morrissey is the crown prince of sad.  He teaches us that deaf/mute girls are terrible at telling you that a disaster is occurring, and that when you get famous, all your old friends hate you for buying new tee shirts.  Morrissey fans are best known for hugging their legs and biting their knees in the shower, over a girl that dumped them rather than learn their name, or binge-eating an entire pizza and then throwing it up on their man-boobs in the bath tub, while they squeeze their  testicles until they remember that they are worthless and do not deserve love.

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Re: Any relevance for religion?
« Reply #104 on: March 19, 2012, 06:59:43 pm »
Well, here's the deal:  Religion is obviously relevant, and probably necessary, because the great majority of the world's population has been engaging in it for thousands and thousands of years.

WHY it is so important is another story.  All we can say for certain is that people engage in it...That's undeniable.  So, the question should be "Why is religion relevant and so seemingly important to most people?"

Replace "religion" in the first statement with "slavery". It assumes the necessity of something which people can live without.

Religion's more like beer. You don't need it and some people are better off without it, but try convincing people that pint on the table isn't relevant.

It's relevant to the people who believe in it.

I agree that religion is relevant. I asked if it was necessary.

Well, you actually asked both:

Does religion serve a necessary place in the human world? Is it relevant in an age of science where what were formerly the most profound questions are now answered (e.g. where does the sun go at night?)?
Morrissey is the crown prince of sad.  He teaches us that deaf/mute girls are terrible at telling you that a disaster is occurring, and that when you get famous, all your old friends hate you for buying new tee shirts.  Morrissey fans are best known for hugging their legs and biting their knees in the shower, over a girl that dumped them rather than learn their name, or binge-eating an entire pizza and then throwing it up on their man-boobs in the bath tub, while they squeeze their  testicles until they remember that they are worthless and do not deserve love.