Was there a Paedophile tolerant culture amongst the 60s 'neo-spiritual Left'?

[Placid Dingo]

On Hakim Bey, creator of the concept Temporary Autonomous Zone (a predecessor to PLUR)

There is a periodical, preserved at the University of Michigan's famous Labadie Collection, that seems to make an unlikely fit with the purpose of that special archive, which is to preserve anarchist materials in particular, as well as those of other social movements, including sexual freedom and gay liberation. It is the NAMBLA Bulletin, which has been published monthly since 1983 by the North American Man-Boy Love Association. "Man-boy Love" is a term used by apologists of paedophilia. I hereafter use the term paedophilia where such people would object to its use. But why was a paedophile magazine acquired by an archive with such a charter? Most people would argue that "Man-Boy Love" is not an issue relating to gay culture at all, since paedophilia occurs no more or less frequently among gays than it does with straights. Very few people of any politics consider adult-child sex to be a legitimate lifestyle choice. But the former curator who added NAMBLA Bulletin to the Labadie was actually keeping to the central mission of the anarchist archive when he subscribed to the journal.

Beginning with the July-August 1985 issue, the magazine carried a long series of items by Hakim Bey, who was already a distinctly anarchist writer. Most of them were discussions of the paedophile obsession with a clear anarchist slant. Anarchist ideology was the mode of justification, the method of persuading children to have sex and to keep it secret.

On Kerry Thornley (some guy, started some religion or something.)

Pope OldBoyfloats: Do you consider what you wrote in your book, Prankster and the Conspiracy, about Kerry's predisposition towards sex with children to be metaphorical, satirical, or dog gone truth?

Adam Gorightly: Well, there are plenty of metaphors and satire in The Prankster and the Conspiracy, but the question you've asked falls more into the category of "dog gone truth", although what the complete truth is regarding Kerry Thornley--in regards to many unanswered questions--who knows? And "truth" is something that can change, and will change, with the more information you process. So "truth" is a word I have issues with, as it's so damn subjective, and nobody's "truth" will ever be quite the same as the next persons. I just reported the story of Kerry Thornley as best I could, but as with so many questions concerning Kerry, the verdict is still out,such as: did he meet with Oswald in New Orleans; was he involved in the JFK assassination; was he a victim of mk-ultra mind control—or all the above. We'll probablynever know for sure—we can only speculate. But to answer your question, I wouldn't say that Kerry had a predisposition towards sex with children. However, he was an idealist about all matters sexual, and his philosophy was documented pretty thoroughly in a series of magazine articles he wrote in the early 1970's entitled Erotic Minority Liberation, where he defended nearly every sexual taboo, including exhibitionists, voyeurs, fetishists, pedophiles, transvestites, nymphomaniacs, obscene phone callers, animal lovers and sadomasochists. Now, I wouldn't classify Kerry as a pedophile, as the only documented instance--which I wrote about in the book--occurred in the early 1970's with Grace Zabriskie's daughter, Marion. It was an episode where Kerry fondled Marion, who was 8 years old at the time. Knowing what I do about Kerry, he probably thought it was all good, letting nature take its course, that type of thing.Just all part of this philosophical approach he had to sex. Perhaps, he was simply experimenting, wanting to try at least everything once. Kerry, if anything, was naïve. I don't think he was manipulative,or a predator.

I was born in the later 80s to parents who weren't part of any kind of crazy scene in the 70s (which as I understand it, was the Australian 60s, more or less) so I don't know but what I'm wondering is, was the a general tolerance of paedophilia amongst the Lefty/hippy/esoteric/freak scene? Or did these two individuals just happen to be anomalies?

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

There was certainly a culture of consenting sex with minors (15,16 17 year olds for example) > However, sex with (or molestation of in the case of thornley) was not a commonly held philosophy. There has been a lot of debate on Bey's writings, was he making a philosophical argument from a "no one should tell someone else who they can have sex with" position, or was he personally interested in sex with prepubescent children? It simply cannot be stated with certainty. There is even some evidence that Hunter Thompson may have had leanings toward pedophilia, but again, so concrete evidence.

On the topic of Thornley, though, its extremely likely that at least once he did engage in molestation of his young niece. The other people present in the house (also hippie/leftist/liberals) were NOT OK with his behavior and forced him to come out of the room where he was alone with the child. Its also worth pointing out that by that point in his life, he was showing signs of serious mental disorders. That doesn't excuse any behavior, but it does put it in a different context than a"tolerant culture".

[Cain]

Agreed with Tosk, there was a certain element of consensual sex with minors being considered not wrong...but I doubt Thornley's own issues would be considered cool by the counterculture at large.

I would also say there was a qualitative difference between the "neo-spiritual left" and, say, the Catholic Church in regards to this issue, as well.

[Placid Dingo]

Cheers.

Excuse the term, I wasn't sure how to refer to that Bey-Leary-Thornley blending of left ideogy with spirituality.

I learned of the Bey-NAMBLA connection not long before I read the Gorightly interview, and it got me thinking.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

Cheers.

Excuse the term, I wasn't sure how to refer to that Bey-Leary-Thornley blending of left ideogy with spirituality.

I learned of the Bey-NAMBLA connection not long before I read the Gorightly interview, and it got me thinking.

Gorightly's book on Thornley is really quite good and goes into a lot of detail about his mental state. As awesome as some of his work was, his problems really impacted his relationships with people and his life ended as a crazy guy all alone with no friends except for some cats... in an old trailer in the woods.

[El Sjaako]

The prevalence of pedophilia in the general population is not known, but is estimated to be lower than 5% based on several smaller studies with prevalence rates between 3% and 9%.

If that is true, I think every moderately sized movement has pedophiles. Maybe the left has more of a tendency to talk about it, and maybe we just read more about the left.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

The prevalence of pedophilia in the general population is not known, but is estimated to be lower than 5% based on several smaller studies with prevalence rates between 3% and 9%.

If that is true, I think every moderately sized movement has pedophiles. Maybe the left has more of a tendency to talk about it, and maybe we just read more about the left.

Good point, on the right you have the Catholic preists issue which I think appears more pervasive than the problem people on the left...

[Doktor Howl]

Ellis made a big deal out of this with "Rightlove", and it's founders, in Transmet.

[Placid Dingo]

I'll read that.

Alan Ginsberg also seemed to be connected with NAMBLA.

[hirley0]

When? in 69 {the Kent state ERA| the Religious Left
(online interferance:}? attempted My assisanation {Portland State Protest|
via the LSD overdose method {well in place by '69) {large following$| they
did fail | 'cause i wet my lip |butt never swallowed a drop | 1 wet lip =
erection that lasted several years | believe whatever you like | hard as a rock
|in the days prior to Calice etc. | this go round } $tudents protest WaWaWaRe
the weapons have been made for more leathel | Biological rather than Chemical
& my guess is yes: this time They Were succesfull: that is my guess: However
let me add this about those Maids in the middle east ?Momisteries?
they do Not compare to the 1987 | direct from fucUShiMA | versions of :::.

Cheers.

Excuse the term, I wasn't sure how to refer to that Bey-Leary-Thornley blending of left ideogy with spirituality.

I learned of the Bey-NAMBLA connection not long before I read the Gorightly interview, and it got me thinking.