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Hey roger, are they changing the law because of you?

Started by Faust, April 03, 2012, 08:16:51 AM

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Doktor Howl

Quote from: inode_buddha on April 23, 2012, 06:41:14 PM
Ahahahahahaha... GOTCHA   :lulz: but yeah that guy is fucken medieval. Plan to wait a while so we can evolve as a species a bit more. That or just wipe ourselves out.

Optimist.

It's entirely possible that this state of affairs could go on indefinitely.  In fact, looking around, we appear to be marching backwards.
Molon Lube

Freeky

Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 23, 2012, 06:42:29 PM
Quote from: inode_buddha on April 23, 2012, 06:41:14 PM
Ahahahahahaha... GOTCHA   :lulz: but yeah that guy is fucken medieval. Plan to wait a while so we can evolve as a species a bit more. That or just wipe ourselves out.

Optimist.

It's entirely possible that this state of affairs could go on indefinitely.  In fact, looking around, we appear to be marching backwards.

Yep.  More violent, more ignorant, more racist/mysoginist/otherwise bigoted and insular.  Definitely going backwards.

Doktor Howl

Quote from: The Freeky of SCIENCE! on April 23, 2012, 06:44:03 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 23, 2012, 06:42:29 PM
Quote from: inode_buddha on April 23, 2012, 06:41:14 PM
Ahahahahahaha... GOTCHA   :lulz: but yeah that guy is fucken medieval. Plan to wait a while so we can evolve as a species a bit more. That or just wipe ourselves out.

Optimist.

It's entirely possible that this state of affairs could go on indefinitely.  In fact, looking around, we appear to be marching backwards.

Yep.  More violent, more ignorant, more racist/mysoginist/otherwise bigoted and insular.  Definitely going backwards.

And some torture here, some "extraordinary rendition" there, add in a touch of militant evangelism, and there's the 21st century, splattered all over your face.

Lester Maddox bukkake!

:hit:
Molon Lube

Doktor Howl

And Inode, I spent 7 years in upstate New York.  You have just as many po'buckers as we do.
Molon Lube

Freeky

Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 23, 2012, 06:46:06 PM
Quote from: The Freeky of SCIENCE! on April 23, 2012, 06:44:03 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 23, 2012, 06:42:29 PM
Quote from: inode_buddha on April 23, 2012, 06:41:14 PM
Ahahahahahaha... GOTCHA   :lulz: but yeah that guy is fucken medieval. Plan to wait a while so we can evolve as a species a bit more. That or just wipe ourselves out.

Optimist.

It's entirely possible that this state of affairs could go on indefinitely.  In fact, looking around, we appear to be marching backwards.

Yep.  More violent, more ignorant, more racist/mysoginist/otherwise bigoted and insular.  Definitely going backwards.

And some torture here, some "extraordinary rendition" there, add in a touch of militant evangelism, and there's the 21st century, splattered all over your face.

Lester Maddox bukkake!

:hit:

AMERICA IS #1!  FUCK YEAH!

inode_buddha

Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 23, 2012, 06:42:29 PM
Quote from: inode_buddha on April 23, 2012, 06:41:14 PM
Ahahahahahaha... GOTCHA   :lulz: but yeah that guy is fucken medieval. Plan to wait a while so we can evolve as a species a bit more. That or just wipe ourselves out.

Optimist.

It's entirely possible that this state of affairs could go on indefinitely.  In fact, looking around, we appear to be marching backwards.

Oh shit yer right.... scuse my gotta go check my pance...
C|N>K

navkat

Quote from: inode_buddha on April 23, 2012, 06:16:23 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 23, 2012, 06:01:17 PM
Quote from: inode_buddha on April 23, 2012, 05:56:41 PM
That's interesting, about the governor... it should be the other way round.

"Arizona."

Quote from: inode_buddha on April 23, 2012, 05:56:41 PM
BTW I live within 5 miles of the northern border of the US. How come we don't have those probs up here?

You're too close to the communists.  That's why you don't think like a real American™.

:lulz: :lulz: :lulz:

Ya kn ow, thats one of the *only* things I like about NY - we actually have some civil liberties up here. Not much, but still better than some other places...

Are you for serious? Like seriously for serious? You know I'm from NY, right? And don't give me that shit about things being different with the Downstate "City Lib'ruls," a state statute is a state statute and just because you're balls-deep in a pleasant hybrid of Amherst modified Deer-hunting permits and Elmwood Avenue Artwalks, doesn't mean they won't slap the Beef on Weck out of your face and strip search you on your way to the gulag in a hot minute.

Also; Canada is to the WEST, silly!

inode_buddha

Quote from: navkat on April 24, 2012, 03:36:14 AM
Quote from: inode_buddha on April 23, 2012, 06:16:23 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 23, 2012, 06:01:17 PM
Quote from: inode_buddha on April 23, 2012, 05:56:41 PM
That's interesting, about the governor... it should be the other way round.

"Arizona."

Quote from: inode_buddha on April 23, 2012, 05:56:41 PM
BTW I live within 5 miles of the northern border of the US. How come we don't have those probs up here?

You're too close to the communists.  That's why you don't think like a real American™.

:lulz: :lulz: :lulz:

Ya kn ow, thats one of the *only* things I like about NY - we actually have some civil liberties up here. Not much, but still better than some other places...

Are you for serious? Like seriously for serious? You know I'm from NY, right? And don't give me that shit about things being different with the Downstate "City Lib'ruls," a state statute is a state statute and just because you're balls-deep in a pleasant hybrid of Amherst modified Deer-hunting permits and Elmwood Avenue Artwalks, doesn't mean they won't slap the Beef on Weck out of your face and strip search you on your way to the gulag in a hot minute.

Also; Canada is to the WEST, silly!

For some reason I'm far more worried about the Troopers on the I90 than I am about some overblown sherrif in a completely different state. (but yes the system will try to do all sorts of things)
C|N>K

navkat

What I'm saying is, unless you're one of their own (moneied, connections) or in the RARE circumstance where the ACLU takes your case, you're going. If they trace it back to you, a government body anywhere has only to utter the following magic words: "Wanted for questioning in connection with possible threats of terrorism" and you will find yourself in 118-degree weather in a glorified port-o-let. Period. In case you haven't noticed, concepts like "rule of law" "unconstitutional" and "contradicts an existing protective statute" are reeeeeally fuzzy these days.

Don't believe me? Try crossing the border a few dozen times with goods purchased from Canada. Make sure you follow all the laws and bring a copy of them with you to show the border agents when they INSIST you must pay duty on your new lingerie because they're considered sex toys and there's a restriction on them.

It doesn't actually matter what your rights are or what the law is. All that matters is what orders got handed down to the guys with the guns that particular day. You can show them a copy of the constitution but if their P.O.D. says "Knock on Inode's door. Extradite to AZ," guess where you're going?

inode_buddha

Quote from: navkat on April 24, 2012, 04:18:30 AM
What I'm saying is, unless you're one of their own (moneied, connections) or in the RARE circumstance where the ACLU takes your case, you're going. If they trace it back to you, a government body anywhere has only to utter the following magic words: "Wanted for questioning in connection with possible threats of terrorism" and you will find yourself in 118-degree weather in a glorified port-o-let. Period. In case you haven't noticed, concepts like "rule of law" "unconstitutional" and "contradicts an existing protective statute" are reeeeeally fuzzy these days.

Don't believe me? Try crossing the border a few dozen times with goods purchased from Canada. Make sure you follow all the laws and bring a copy of them with you to show the border agents when they INSIST you must pay duty on your new lingerie because they're considered sex toys and there's a restriction on them.

It doesn't actually matter what your rights are or what the law is. All that matters is what orders got handed down to the guys with the guns that particular day. You can show them a copy of the constitution but if their P.O.D. says "Knock on Inode's door. Extradite to AZ," guess where you're going?

well, I disagree (based on experience). Yes I know you can be locked up at the border for most anything, but I also know its not likely. Nor is it likely to remain that way.

1 - a few minor connections (no money tho)
2 - as a matter of fact, yes, a few lawyers and/or referrals
3 - new IP addys anytime I want... I could be coming from a router in Botswana tomorrow, ya know...
4 - crossing the border is routine and boring especially with the enhanced ID's.
5 - in fact yes the rule of law does matter or else we wouldn't have a civilization with which to discuss things. Notice that doesn't mean its perfect - I could still be massively inconvenienced for a while.

I'm well aware that we live in what amounts to a totalitarian state. I also know they're not dumb enough to overtly push it. Meantime, anything I can do to repeal the so-called Patriot Act, along with a few so-called "trade agreements".
C|N>K

navkat

Quote from: inode_buddha on April 24, 2012, 05:12:30 AM
Quote from: navkat on April 24, 2012, 04:18:30 AM
What I'm saying is, unless you're one of their own (moneied, connections) or in the RARE circumstance where the ACLU takes your case, you're going. If they trace it back to you, a government body anywhere has only to utter the following magic words: "Wanted for questioning in connection with possible threats of terrorism" and you will find yourself in 118-degree weather in a glorified port-o-let. Period. In case you haven't noticed, concepts like "rule of law" "unconstitutional" and "contradicts an existing protective statute" are reeeeeally fuzzy these days.

Don't believe me? Try crossing the border a few dozen times with goods purchased from Canada. Make sure you follow all the laws and bring a copy of them with you to show the border agents when they INSIST you must pay duty on your new lingerie because they're considered sex toys and there's a restriction on them.

It doesn't actually matter what your rights are or what the law is. All that matters is what orders got handed down to the guys with the guns that particular day. You can show them a copy of the constitution but if their P.O.D. says "Knock on Inode's door. Extradite to AZ," guess where you're going?

well, I disagree (based on experience). Yes I know you can be locked up at the border for most anything, but I also know its not likely. Nor is it likely to remain that way.

1 - a few minor connections (no money tho) <---most people can not has.
2 - as a matter of fact, yes, a few lawyers and/or referrals <---many people can not has.
3 - new IP addys anytime I want... I could be coming from a router in Botswana tomorrow, ya know... <---What Rog said.
4 - crossing the border is routine and boring especially with the enhanced ID's. <---making my point. Where are these enhanced liberties you speak of? YOU GOT PAPERS?
5 - in fact yes the rule of law does matter or else we wouldn't have a civilization with which to discuss things. Notice that doesn't mean its perfect - I could still be massively inconvenienced for a while.
<---ever hear the words "prohibitively expensive?" Or "Effectively banned?"
I'm well aware that we live in what amounts to a totalitarian state. I also know they're not dumb enough to overtly push it. Meantime, anything I can do to repeal the so-called Patriot Act, along with a few so-called "trade agreements".

All in all, I would subscribe to your newsletter...hell, I subscribe to the CATO Institute's and you are delightfully optimistic...just like I was. This place will beat that out of you and duct-tape your hands to the grips of the Right Motorcycle in no time. Start with the BIP and snowball your way down the crap-hill from there.

And welcome aboard, shipmate!

Doktor Howl

Quote from: inode_buddha on April 24, 2012, 05:12:30 AM
5 - in fact yes the rule of law does matter or else we wouldn't have a civilization with which to discuss things.

This is blatantly false.  It is possible to have a civilization based on the rule of expedience, rather than the rule of law.  In fact, most of human history was run that way.

And I've been around the block a time or two, myself.  If you don't have a good lawyer, they'll do whatever the fuck they want with you.  If you DO have a good lawyer, he might be able to add a little sanity to the situation.

But in the end, all they have to do is call you a "person of interest", as they did with that Anderson guy back in 2005, and you'll be bloody lucky to see daylight again.
Molon Lube

Doktor Howl

Quote from: inode_buddha on April 24, 2012, 05:12:30 AM
I'm well aware that we live in what amounts to a totalitarian state. I also know they're not dumb enough to overtly push it.

:lulz:
Molon Lube

Cain

Yeah, "totalitarian" is pushing it just a tiny little bit.

Are you living in a semi-authoritarian, paramilitarized state where rule of law is inconsistently and selectively applied and surveillance is endemic?  Sure.

On the other hand, you are still living.  And not in a concentration camp.

Doktor Howl

Quote from: Cain on April 24, 2012, 02:11:35 PM
Yeah, "totalitarian" is pushing it just a tiny little bit.

Are you living in a semi-authoritarian, paramilitarized state where rule of law is inconsistently and selectively applied and surveillance is endemic?  Sure.

On the other hand, you are still living.  And not in a concentration camp.

Unless you're this guy:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jose_Guerena_shooting

There's the fucking rule of law for ya!  HAR!
Molon Lube