Increasing rates of autism in the US?

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I'd slap a ribbon on her, rather than a label, myself...

I know you mean well, but honestly that kind of facile comment/judgement from a completely disconnected person who has never met my daughter and has absolutely no idea what she may be dealing with really rubs me the wrong way. I thought I was crazy, like really for real irredeemably crazy, for much of my life before I talked to my doctor about what I was experiencing and found out that I'm epileptic, and the electrical storms in my temporal lobes cause perception shifts and erratic emotions and behavior prior to and during a seizure cluster, and memory loss after a seizure cluster. 

How about another example? I thought I had an anxiety disorder, but it turns out that the reason my heart races and I feel faint and shaky and panicked sometimes is because I have a heart problem. Proper medical evaluation taught me that, not slapping a ribbon on me and calling me a special snowflake. So, as a parent, I'm going to make damn sure that LO gets proper medical evaluation wherever possible, in case the reality is that her odd behavior is caused by a physiological issue that can be monitored and/or treated, or at least understood.

[Elder Iptuous]

My apollogies. 
i thought by the fact that you put 'wrong' in quotes, and that there isn't anything specific to point at, other than 'different from the other children', that you were saying that you felt the diagnosis was undue.
i meant my comment as supportive.
again, sorry.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

My apollogies. 
i thought by the fact that you put 'wrong' in quotes, and that there isn't anything specific to point at, other than 'different from the other children', that you were saying that you felt the diagnosis was undue.
i meant my comment as supportive.
again, sorry.

OK, I understand and accept your apology. It's just a bit of a sore spot for me... lots of people who are outsiders to other people's lives and processes, making proclamations like "autism is overdiagnosed", "there's nothing wrong with those kids, they're just spoiled", etc. etc.

I'm not saying that's what you did, just that it's a hot button for me. A close friend of mine has an autistic son, and has dealt with people, including teachers, treating him in ways that are outright cruel because they were convinced that he was just spoiled or stubborn, and that they could train it out of him. She's dealt with people judging her mothering, assuming that he's the way he is because she lets him get away with it. I've had people tell me things like "I would never tolerate that" and "you just have to lay down the law" when I told them about LO's screaming fits. She would scream for hours. Hours. Over things that were, at best, trivial. The being-killed kind of screaming that leaves your throat raw for days. I never figured out what they meant by that. How do you "not tolerate" that? By beating your child unconscious? Is that how you end up with those stories of 3-year-olds with multiple broken bones, because parents were "refusing to tolerate" screaming and crying? So, I've been judged for walking out of the room, closing the door, and going outside to sit on the front porch to shake and cry, because that was, according to the kind of Internet logic that doesn't even have to be there to make a diagnosis, too permissive. Too lenient.

I put "wrong" in quotes because we really have no idea what's going on. One neurologist thought she might have auditory processing disorder because you can speak to her and she will often not understand what you said... but the doctor was unable to confirm it. There's an element to it that seems like spacing out, and an element to it that seems like she may be organizing her thoughts completely differently.

The other day she asked me a question, and the answer was not a straightforward yes or no, it was "if, then...". She was not OK with that, and we had a lengthy and heated conversation until I figured out how to phrase it in a way that was acceptable to her. That kind of behavior is similar to autism. But she is also very affectionate and cuddly, which is atypical for autism.

Is there something wrong? I have no idea. Possibly. Possibly not. She could be having micro-seizures, or she could be so brilliant that it's hard for her to relate to the world as the rest of us do, or she could have an autism spectrum disorder, or she could just be incredibly socially awkward, or it could be something else entirely.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

What problems is she experiencing, specifically?

Extreme weirdness.

Hard to explain. You'd have to meet her. Nobody can figure out exactly what's "wrong" with her, only that she's definitely different from other children.

My son has a PDD diagnosis and he's not autism spectrum. His neurologist explained to me (adamantly) when he was little that it's a blanket term. He has some symptoms of ADHD, OCD, etc. but he doesn't fit ANY of them, hence the PDD diagnosis. His ablities fall in a "wide scatter" meaning he's way ahead of the curve in some things and slow in others. When he was little I had to take him to speech therapy twice a week to teach him how to talk, he didn't pick it up on his own. Probably MUCH worse than LO, but still not autism. Some kind of communication disorder, funny wiring. (Good thing we were in MA then and he could get services because he's have been screwed in TX) He's outgrown a lot of his problems, has a job and his own place and is generally doing ok but he's always going to be a little weird. But he's never been considered austistic or asperger's.

I have seen references to PDD as part of the austism spectrum but it's either a mistake or there's two different things called "PDD".

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

What problems is she experiencing, specifically?

Extreme weirdness.

Hard to explain. You'd have to meet her. Nobody can figure out exactly what's "wrong" with her, only that she's definitely different from other children.

My son has a PDD diagnosis and he's not autism spectrum. His neurologist explained to me (adamantly) when he was little that it's a blanket term. He has some symptoms of ADHD, OCD, etc. but he doesn't fit ANY of them, hence the PDD diagnosis. His ablities fall in a "wide scatter" meaning he's way ahead of the curve in some things and slow in others. When he was little I had to take him to speech therapy twice a week to teach him how to talk, he didn't pick it up on his own. Probably MUCH worse than LO, but still not autism. Some kind of communication disorder, funny wiring. (Good thing we were in MA then and he could get services because he's have been screwed in TX) He's outgrown a lot of his problems, has a job and his own place and is generally doing ok but he's always going to be a little weird. But he's never been considered austistic or asperger's.

I have seen references to PDD as part of the austism spectrum but it's either a mistake or there's two different things called "PDD".

My understanding is that PDD is being merged into the autism spectrum-disorder category.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

My apollogies. 
i thought by the fact that you put 'wrong' in quotes, and that there isn't anything specific to point at, other than 'different from the other children', that you were saying that you felt the diagnosis was undue.
i meant my comment as supportive.
again, sorry.

OK, I understand and accept your apology. It's just a bit of a sore spot for me... lots of people who are outsiders to other people's lives and processes, making proclamations like "autism is overdiagnosed", "there's nothing wrong with those kids, they're just spoiled", etc. etc.

I'm not saying that's what you did, just that it's a hot button for me. A close friend of mine has an autistic son, and has dealt with people, including teachers, treating him in ways that are outright cruel because they were convinced that he was just spoiled or stubborn, and that they could train it out of him. She's dealt with people judging her mothering, assuming that he's the way he is because she lets him get away with it. I've had people tell me things like "I would never tolerate that" and "you just have to lay down the law" when I told them about LO's screaming fits. She would scream for hours. Hours. Over things that were, at best, trivial. The being-killed kind of screaming that leaves your throat raw for days. I never figured out what they meant by that. How do you "not tolerate" that? By beating your child unconscious? Is that how you end up with those stories of 3-year-olds with multiple broken bones, because parents were "refusing to tolerate" screaming and crying? So, I've been judged for walking out of the room, closing the door, and going outside to sit on the front porch to shake and cry, because that was, according to the kind of Internet logic that doesn't even have to be there to make a diagnosis, too permissive. Too lenient.

THIS. Times, like, 1,000,000,000.

I put "wrong" in quotes because we really have no idea what's going on. One neurologist thought she might have auditory processing disorder because you can speak to her and she will often not understand what you said... but the doctor was unable to confirm it. There's an element to it that seems like spacing out, and an element to it that seems like she may be organizing her thoughts completely differently.

The other day she asked me a question, and the answer was not a straightforward yes or no, it was "if, then...". She was not OK with that, and we had a lengthy and heated conversation until I figured out how to phrase it in a way that was acceptable to her. That kind of behavior is similar to autism. But she is also very affectionate and cuddly, which is atypical for autism.

You do have to phrase things a certain way, and these kids have eccentricities that nobody gets.

For a long time, when I asked my son to do something, he'd say "No" and then do it anyway. He just had to get that "no" in there to let you know he wasn't pleased, but he'd cooperate.

Teachers couldn't comprehend this. He caught a lot of unnecessary hell until he finally outgrew that. I had to go to the school all the time and fight the ignoant cunts and get called into question because I "let him get away with that".

Is there something wrong? I have no idea. Possibly. Possibly not. She could be having micro-seizures, or she could be so brilliant that it's hard for her to relate to the world as the rest of us do, or she could have an autism spectrum disorder, or she could just be incredibly socially awkward, or it could be something else entirely.

Have you taken her to a pediatric neurologist? That's where we finally got something to work with...

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

What problems is she experiencing, specifically?

Extreme weirdness.

Hard to explain. You'd have to meet her. Nobody can figure out exactly what's "wrong" with her, only that she's definitely different from other children.

My son has a PDD diagnosis and he's not autism spectrum. His neurologist explained to me (adamantly) when he was little that it's a blanket term. He has some symptoms of ADHD, OCD, etc. but he doesn't fit ANY of them, hence the PDD diagnosis. His ablities fall in a "wide scatter" meaning he's way ahead of the curve in some things and slow in others. When he was little I had to take him to speech therapy twice a week to teach him how to talk, he didn't pick it up on his own. Probably MUCH worse than LO, but still not autism. Some kind of communication disorder, funny wiring. (Good thing we were in MA then and he could get services because he's have been screwed in TX) He's outgrown a lot of his problems, has a job and his own place and is generally doing ok but he's always going to be a little weird. But he's never been considered austistic or asperger's.

I have seen references to PDD as part of the austism spectrum but it's either a mistake or there's two different things called "PDD".

My understanding is that PDD is being merged into the autism spectrum-disorder category.

It shouldn't be. Like you said, these kids are usually affectionate and outgoing. The only time my son tuned anything out was when he was hyperfocused on something else.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Yes, she has seen two pediatric neurologists. I would like to have her screened for epilepsy as well, even though I know it's not usually hereditary. She is much easier as she gets older, but I do worry that she will always have a hard time forming friendships. Luckily, E.O.T.s kids are also weird, and they love her. 

I think the reason they are lumping them together is because it fits with autism as a spectrum disorder, and because it's part of a spectrum disorder, some kids will be toward the affectionate end of the spectrum, and others will be toward the other end.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

I remember when my kid was going for DEC evals, they wrote everything up with a really dire spin and explained that it was to help him qualify for more services, MA was great that way. So that could be an upside to it, but "autism" is a hell of a label for somebody who's already having social difficulties because they're wired differently.

Definitely rule out the epilepsy, if only for your own peace of mind.

[Golden Applesauce]

As for the rates for girls....no-one knows, although it seems a well-established phenomenon.

One explanation I heard is that when it occurs in girls, the symptoms aren't as apparent as with boys. Also partly due to gender expectations, I think.

But going on the TV/xbox/computer angle ... How does that exposure compare between boys and girls? Do girls watch as much TV? (probably) but do they play as much video games? I'm fairly sure they don't spend as much time in front of the computer as boys. The gap's probably closing a bit in recent years with computers and Internet being very ubiquitous, though.

I highly doubt the tv/xbox angle, if only because autism manifests really early.  Speech delays are really common in ASD (I think they're actually required for a standard autism diagnosis?) - which means that autism has existed in a strong enough form to cause learning disability before babies normally start learning to speak.  It's really, really hard to play XBox with pre-speech motor skills.

As for the gender expectations - are you sure?  I'd (naively) think that the whole social learning disability would stand out even more with young girls.  Or does autism actually manifest with different symptoms in girls?  Also keep in mind that us guys all have genetic damage in that our Y chromosome is shitty compared to an X.  On the other hand I haven't heard if any of the however many scores of autism-related genes they've found now are X-Y linked; on the other-other hand we haven't found any genes that have more than a slight correlation with autism.  Which means that we have no idea what causes it, other than "highly hereditable and mostly in boys."

[Freeky]

It's really, really hard to play XBox with pre-speech motor skills.

It isn't strictly xbox he means.  Video games in general.

[Juana]

and why do rates for girls tend to be lower?

I did a project looking for environmental factors linked to autism (specifically pesticides) back in 2007 -- the research we were reading at the time suggested it had something to do with estrogen. *shrug* Dunno if that's been debunked or not. I haven't really kept up with it, but that was what we were hearing.


There is also some evidence showing links between organophosphates and autism.

A new study on children born in California's Central Valley suggests that autism in those children might be linked to prenatal exposure to two insecticides used on fields near their mothers' homes.
Autism Linked to Maternal Exposure to Pesticides

A new study on children born in California's Central Valley suggests that autism in those children might be linked to prenatal exposure to two insecticides used on fields near their mothers' homes.

Cases of autism and related disorders were associated with maternal exposure to applications of dicofol and endosulfan during early pregnancy. The rate of autism increased as amounts of these pesticides increased. Distance of the mother's residence was also a factor, with cases of autism decreasing the farther away from the fields that she lived.

Children were six times more likely to have been diagnosed with autism if their mothers had spent early pregnancy in homes within 500 meters (547 yards) of fields with the highest levels of dicofol and endosulfan applications when compared to a group whose mothers did not live near agricultural fields.

Autism is characterized as a neurodevelopmental disorder. California researchers wanted to test the idea that pesticide exposure from living near agricultural fields during pregnancy might contribute to problems with fetal development of the nervous system. They conducted this exploratory study using information gleaned from several state databases, focusing on children born in the Central Valley, an agricultural region. After identifying children who had been diagnosed with autism, they matched the mothers' addresses to agricultural activity in the area. They then honed in on specific pesticides that had been used nearby during the mother's first eight weeks of pregnancy. For comparison, they used information about children born in this region who had not been identified as autistic.

It would not have seemed surprising if organophosphate insecticides had been associated with cases of autism, since organophosphates are well known for their toxicity to the nervous system. But in this study, only dicofol and endosulfan, which belong to the organochlorine* chemical family, were linked to cases of autism. Researchers cautioned that this connection needed further study.

    *DDT, chlordane and other organochlorine insecticides have been banned in the United States. Since the EPA issued cancellation orders for lindane in 2006, dicofol and endosulfan are the only remaining organochlorines registered for pesticide use. The FDA still permits the use of lindane for treatment of head lice.

I checked and endosulfan and dicofol are used in crops in Jersey. I was unable to find a landuse map to tell you how much of the state is used for farming but based on what some of their biggest exports are, I feel pretty comfortable saying that kids are probably exposed to it. *shrug* If there's a link, there you go.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

That's pretty interesting. I hope it's explored with further study.

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A close friend of mine has an autistic son, and has dealt with people, including teachers, treating him in ways that are outright cruel because they were convinced that he was just spoiled or stubborn, and that they could train it out of him. She's dealt with people judging her mothering, assuming that he's the way he is because she lets him get away with it.

I think I observed this sort of thing on the MAX today.

A woman and a teenage boy sat down across the aisle from me. I couldn't help but notice that the kid was not normal and got the vibe that he had autism. I've been around autistic people a number of times, but I also have always felt an odd connection to them—as though I have some intuitive understanding of their weirdness. Anyway, I formed this impression of the boy and the woman and carried on looking out the window nearby them looking for good surfaces for posters and graphics. Not far before I'm about to get off the train the boy abruptly leans over so he can see me, looks directly into my eyes and does a funny wave. So I smile and do a similar wave back. A moment later he does the same thing, smiling this time. The woman looks embarrassed and gently grabs his hand pushes it down onto his lap. She didn't even glance over to see who he was waving at. But the kid seems to have taken a liking to me and keeps leaning forward with a grin on his face, looking at me right in the eye and waving—and the woman keeps softly grabbing his hand and forcing it down. I wave back each time. Not once does the woman even look to see who he's waving at and seems to be getting more and more embarrassed as this little dynamic continues.

I tried to give her the benefit of the doubt, but I can't imagine what would justify her behavior. Even if the kid was previously being a complete shit, why would a caretaker, relative, or mother do that? WTF? I couldn't come up with any reasoning that made sense. Maybe it's my brain trying to make a bad "train" pun, but the idea that she was training autism out of him really seems to fit. It has the tinny ring of truth.

[Placid Dingo]

What I witness in schools around here (and where I am isn't exactly the cutting edge of education, just by virtue of being out in woop woop), things aren't bad in schools. We get a lot of kids with a plethora of issues. I think I have three or four all up with Austism. When I taught at tiny back of the bush schools I had three schools with one heavily autistic kid in each (though that may be to do with less remote area having more access to special needs education.)

Generally we're pretty good at saying 'well, Fred is Fred, and this is what works with him', whether or not there's an existing diagnosis. I've also had a lot of conversations along the lines of

'What's the story with Fred?'
'He's not diagnosed with anything'
'Probably autistic?'
'Yes.'

I don't think there's too much judgment of parents with unknown issues with the kids. At any school you see parents with questionable practices, but it's pretty rare to see a kid with behavioural issues straight up blamed on parents unless there's a good reason to suspect so.

I think Enki's point may have something to do with it; we refer mainly to ASD (Austistic Spectrum Disorder - which includes Asperegers) so there's a culture of understanding ASD could mean punching a hole in the wall because somebody upset them, or it could mean effectively, not much different to any other student.

If the matter is actually (and just from this conversation, I wouldn't be convinced yet) that ASD is actually happening more, then I'm surprised, and not at all sure what it means.