Anarchism and Welfare

[navkat]

1. If all this guy did was talk about what he'd like to do, I don't understand getting this upset about it at all. Does it make him a bit of a sleaze? Sure, maybe, whatever. It also could just make him stupid or naive. There are plenty young men who join the military because they wanted to "blow shit up." The first time "blow shit up" means "people are gonna die, asshole" they seriously rethink their attitudes. There are people who think they'd like to (or could) do certain things and when they get there, realize they really don't have the heart to actually do them. I know people who work in labs who have to destroy lab animals at the conclusion of a test. Many of them go into with a nonchalant attitude and realize after the first one that they really detest snipping an animal's head off with a pair of shears.

The thing is, I didn't join the Army to blow shit up or kill people. All my choices of jobs in the Army were ones that were relatively non-violent, and I've been rather honest about what I did in the Army. That is particularly why I got pissed about murderrapist's personal attack.

Yeah, that attack was completely out of line, especially because everyone knew by then Coyote was mostly an administrater type.

And then he called me a pedophile defender, which I patently am not and everybody knows it, but he wasn't even being facetious about it, and since this was on TSC there were strangers who believed him.

And then, just recently, he said that Khara molests her children.  Her own damn children.

THAT I saw. It was just dumb. Everyone knows that's not true. Kind of trollish.

He didn't seem like he was trolling to me, just trying to make an over the top joke which he for some reason didn't think would be completely and utterly out of line, considering who he is, what she went through, etc.

Also, I don't know about Coyote, but the thing that made me feel utter contempt for him was when he said I was a defender of pedophiles, not his sexual deviancy.

I kind of wish you would stop ignoring my posts, woman.  I said three times that he hadn't done anything wrong, and you ignored it, and I mentioned that my problem with him is not his gross badwrong, and it seems like you ignored that, too, in favor of defending him.

Ack! I'm sorry if I came off that way. I really didn't have a clear picture and from some of your original responses, I got the impression that the connotation was that he didn't out-and-out admit to having committed a crime, he just sort of implied it gleefully.

I don't think any of my posts defend him at all. I don't know him and the one thing he did that I have witnessed (the khara thing) makes him seem like a bit of a douche but I'm trying not to formulate my replies from a position of bias.

I don't know what the fuck I keep doing wrong to imply or come off as though I'm taking sides against people every time I open my fucking face-hole. It's happened like three times in the last two months: something I said in the C Utopia thread came off as if I was condoning stalking and harassment and there was something else...I can't remember.

I'm pretty damned oblivious of how I the things I say are perceived. I realize this and try to be careful of my wording but lately, I just feel like no matter how many quality ingredients I throw into a thing, I always end up making a shit-sandwich somehow.

I'm sorry if something I said implied I was taking sides with someone for calling coyote a murderer or you a paedophile or Khara one for that matter. Not my intended message. Of COURSE I don't think those things about you guys, nor would I think it's cool that anyone else did. I guess what I was trying to say is: you can't really stop them so why sweat it at all? That's all I was trying to say.

I feel like maybe I just need to pare down my involvement here until I figure out what the fuck I'm doing that's making me come off like such a douche. Again, sorry for any douchiness on my part.

[East Coast Hustle]

I want to say something while trying to avoid fueling the drama

I do know that Babylon has some deviant sexual stuff going on.

I also know that hes given and taken within a lot of flame threads.

I know people hate anarchy threads.

What i do not know is if hes jacked threads and that has caused other members to anger and jack BH's own threads in retaliation.

If he indeed has jacked threads, i guess its fair punishment to ruin his threads; if he has not jacked threads, i find it unfair to ruin the ones he creates.

I dont mind arguing with people with deviant or opposing ideas or ideology, because i can learn a lot from how they position themselves on a certain issue, i only shun or just stop participating in threads where the OP is being obnoxious or trolling (if you hadnt noticed, i never participate in troll/drama threads).

Pretty much this. Everyone is free to ignore BH and think he's a disgusting motherfucker, but turning EVERY thread that he starts into a flamefest about his sexual issues is stupid, annoying, juvenile, and hypocritical. If you want to ignore him then fucking IGNORE him for fuck's sake.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I want to say something while trying to avoid fueling the drama

I do know that Babylon has some deviant sexual stuff going on.

I also know that hes given and taken within a lot of flame threads.

I know people hate anarchy threads.

What i do not know is if hes jacked threads and that has caused other members to anger and jack BH's own threads in retaliation.

If he indeed has jacked threads, i guess its fair punishment to ruin his threads; if he has not jacked threads, i find it unfair to ruin the ones he creates.

I dont mind arguing with people with deviant or opposing ideas or ideology, because i can learn a lot from how they position themselves on a certain issue, i only shun or just stop participating in threads where the OP is being obnoxious or trolling (if you hadnt noticed, i never participate in troll/drama threads).

Yes, he has jacked threads. And, he is a piece of shit crapweasel who tags along on  trolls and then ruins them, he said something viciously horrific about how women's lives are worthless once they've been raped, he's said other equally wretched and wrongheaded shit, and anyone who thinks he should get a fair shake or deserves to be treated like a human being on any level can GO FUCK THEMSELVES.

Seriously, the ONLY reason I advocate ignoring him is because he prefers abuse to silence, he likes the attention. Otherwise, and I repeat, if you think everyone should shut up about how vile and repulsive he is and how much they hate him because for some reason you think that's against some imaginary bullshit PD code of ethics, GO FUCK YOURSELF.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

You admitted to fucking with her on purpose already, dimbass. I don't need a database.
Why the fuck are you people arguing with this piece of shit?

He likes it.

Annnd BAM. Alty lays the truth.

Fuck that piece of shit. He is so desperate to believe that everyone else is just like him that he tries desperately to taint others with his fucked-up perversion brush. He deserves nothing more than to be ignored.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Nav, I love ya....but you're so far off-base with this that I can't even come up with a cogent reply other than to just say "uhh, no."

Wrong about the case itself or wrong in theory? Because the way it was described gave me the impression that he implied he was doing these things or seeking them or whatever and that, to me is a very fucking dangerous thing to ignore. I tried to express that as clearly as possible without using ridiculous rhetoric or excessively emotional speech.

Two things:
1. If all this guy did was talk about what he'd like to do, I don't understand getting this upset about it at all. Does it make him a bit of a sleaze? Sure, maybe, whatever. It also could just make him stupid or naive. There are plenty young men who join the military because they wanted to "blow shit up." The first time "blow shit up" means "people are gonna die, asshole" they seriously rethink their attitudes. There are people who think they'd like to (or could) do certain things and when they get there, realize they really don't have the heart to actually do them. I know people who work in labs who have to destroy lab animals at the conclusion of a test. Many of them go into with a nonchalant attitude and realize after the first one that they really detest snipping an animal's head off with a pair of shears.

I think it's completely possible to fantasize about something which you know in the back of your mind would actually make you quite ill if ever confronted with it in real life. I think the mechanism is much the same as emo teenagers fantasizing their own beautiful, bloodless suicides where their skin is unblemished, everyone cries over their perfect lifeless body and no one shits their pance.

2. If indeed this guy had admitted to actually doing or conspiring to do this type of thing, my post and the reasons I gave still stand. Just because I was misinformed, doesn't mean I don't make a valid point. Y'all are not a squeamish bunch. I don't feel silly or stupid for saying what I said at all in light of the fact that the strong reactions of disgust on here led me to believe he'd done something truly malevolent.

If someone ever does get on here and brag about raping women, I would say the same things.

Dude, you don't know.

So SHUT THE FUCK UP.

What is with all these assholes having opinions about shit they weren't here for?

What, a bunch of people you normally respect have a virulent immune-system reaction to a self-admitted snuff fetishist based on their shared history, and you fuckers' reaction is to QUESTION WHETHER THEY'RE BEING REASONABLE?

SHUT THE FUCK UP.

Go read his post history from start to finish, and THEN form a fucking opinion. FFS.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Of course, you can't actually read all of his fucked-up bullshit because a lot of it was on a now-extinct board that he co-founded with a mod from a board we were trolling at the time.

Which makes him somehow "technically" exempt from the rule against outing trolls. Which, honestly, is a rule we should just get rid of because there's too much gray area around it.

[East Coast Hustle]

What's the gray area?

If you are a member of PD and out a PD trolling mission at another board you get banned. Unless you are acting in an official administrative capacity at that other board. Same reason Fomento wasn't banned. There's no gray area, it's always been a pretty clear policy.

And I still maintain that following someone around the board jacking up any thread they start or post in into a discussion about their offensive sexual preferences is juvenile and annoying. Perhaps Johnyx is actually interested in discussing with BH how Anarchism relates to welfare. So now it's not just BH that people are fucking with, it's anyone who wants to have a discussion with him about things completely unrelated to what disgusts us about him. It's like some kindergarten playground bullshit, only it's being perpetuated by people who are supposed to be grown-ass adults.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

What's the gray area?

If you are a member of PD and out a PD trolling mission at another board you get banned. Unless you are acting in an official administrative capacity at that other board. Same reason Fomento wasn't banned. There's no gray area, it's always been a pretty clear policy.

And I still maintain that following someone around the board jacking up any thread they start or post in into a discussion about their offensive sexual preferences is juvenile and annoying. Perhaps Johnyx is actually interested in discussing with BH how Anarchism relates to welfare. So now it's not just BH that people are fucking with, it's anyone who wants to have a discussion with him about things completely unrelated to what disgusts us about him. It's like some kindergarten playground bullshit, only it's being perpetuated by people who are supposed to be grown-ass adults.

The gray area is that if someone joins us on a troll and then becomes mod/admin at the target board, they're exempt from the rule. So perhaps it's not "gray" so much as "stupid".

And yeah, the constant kneejerk responses to babs annoy the shit out of me, too, but claiming it's wrong because some kind of PD ethic blah blah is bullshit. The ethic here, for as long as I've been around, has been "harass the shit out of people you don't like". I'm not sure why Babs would get to be the exception just because SO MANY people can't stand him.

[navkat]

Nav, I love ya....but you're so far off-base with this that I can't even come up with a cogent reply other than to just say "uhh, no."

Wrong about the case itself or wrong in theory? Because the way it was described gave me the impression that he implied he was doing these things or seeking them or whatever and that, to me is a very fucking dangerous thing to ignore. I tried to express that as clearly as possible without using ridiculous rhetoric or excessively emotional speech.

Two things:
1. If all this guy did was talk about what he'd like to do, I don't understand getting this upset about it at all. Does it make him a bit of a sleaze? Sure, maybe, whatever. It also could just make him stupid or naive. There are plenty young men who join the military because they wanted to "blow shit up." The first time "blow shit up" means "people are gonna die, asshole" they seriously rethink their attitudes. There are people who think they'd like to (or could) do certain things and when they get there, realize they really don't have the heart to actually do them. I know people who work in labs who have to destroy lab animals at the conclusion of a test. Many of them go into with a nonchalant attitude and realize after the first one that they really detest snipping an animal's head off with a pair of shears.

I think it's completely possible to fantasize about something which you know in the back of your mind would actually make you quite ill if ever confronted with it in real life. I think the mechanism is much the same as emo teenagers fantasizing their own beautiful, bloodless suicides where their skin is unblemished, everyone cries over their perfect lifeless body and no one shits their pance.

2. If indeed this guy had admitted to actually doing or conspiring to do this type of thing, my post and the reasons I gave still stand. Just because I was misinformed, doesn't mean I don't make a valid point. Y'all are not a squeamish bunch. I don't feel silly or stupid for saying what I said at all in light of the fact that the strong reactions of disgust on here led me to believe he'd done something truly malevolent.

If someone ever does get on here and brag about raping women, I would say the same things.

Dude, you don't know.

So SHUT THE FUCK UP.

What is with all these assholes having opinions about shit they weren't here for?

What, a bunch of people you normally respect have a virulent immune-system reaction to a self-admitted snuff fetishist based on their shared history, and you fuckers' reaction is to QUESTION WHETHER THEY'RE BEING REASONABLE?

SHUT THE FUCK UP.

Go read his post history from start to finish, and THEN form a fucking opinion. FFS.

Wow. Okay.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Basically, the rule maintains that as long as someone goes ALL THE WAY turncoat, it's cool. Only halfway? You're banned.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Nav, basically any time anyone starts a post with "I don't really know what's going on, but I'm gonna question alla you all's judgement" it's a really good sign that they shouldn't be talking.

Basically, SHUT THE FUCK UP until you do know what's going on and what happened. It's not hard. Maybe ask someone.

[BabylonHoruv]

Basically, the rule maintains that as long as someone goes ALL THE WAY turncoat, it's cool. Only halfway? You're banned.

There's the quid pro quo rule for admins who ban Discordians for being Discordians.  Seems like that covers overly aggressive actions against trolls too.

[East Coast Hustle]

Basically, the rule maintains that as long as someone goes ALL THE WAY turncoat, it's cool. Only halfway? You're banned.

Yeah, sorry our little trolling missions end up not taking precedence over people's legal liability for a website. I'd probably care more about the tiny loophole in the rule if, y'know, it had been less than 4 or 5 years since PD went on a trolling expedition that was actually interesting or potentially useful rather than just "HAY GUISE LETS GO BE MEAN TO MORE PAGANS AGAIN!"

[Phox]

To be perfectly fair, Nigel, TSC was started by BH, Wyldkat, and curiosity. Given that BH was an admin from the beginning of that site (and I believe a few of us went over in good faith without the intention of trolling), I don't really think that reporting that we were dicking around on a dead site to the owner of the server space is an out of line action. Nor, really, is stripping people of the admin status that had been granted, seeing as how, ya know, we really had no business with it anyway.

I don't remember him ever telling Wyldkat about any sooper-sekrit troll plans that we had for TSC, since I don't remember having any sooper-sekrit plans, and Wyldkat, as far as I am aware, was still able to see OMF anyway.

I guess I don't really understand where the idea that BH outed an ongoing troll is coming from.

[East Coast Hustle]

It's coming from people desperately looking for ANY excuse to have that sick fuck banned just because it offends them so much that he's such a sick fuck.

But at PD, as in life, if you come in with the expectation that you have the right to not be offended you are going to be sorely disappointed.