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Robert Bly - The Mythopoetic Men's Movement

Started by Bu🤠ns, May 30, 2012, 03:33:39 AM

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Anna Mae Bollocks

Quote from: Luna on May 31, 2012, 12:09:49 AM
Quote from: Bu☆ns on May 30, 2012, 11:55:55 PM
Absolutely...and I think this is precisely the stigma attached to the masculine role today.  It's one thing to perhaps get up on stage and joke about the differences between men an women and another to take the jokes as absolute truth.

Another one that comes to mind is the whole, "Real men don't cry or show emotion" thing.  I mean this shit was beaten into my head for as far back as I can remember.  Even the Maassi teens, while they're getting their foreskin cut off have to not show any form of emotion or they fail the test. It's pretty weird.

Want weird?  A man who, on the day he gets married, decides that (despite the fact that she works as many hours as he does) he never has to cook, do laundry, clean, or wash a fucking dish again.

I think that might be some of what Campbell was talking about, as far as people not knowing what's expected anymore (or in this case, using an anachronism as an excuse to be a fuckwad). At one time it would have been understood that things like that were the woman's job, but that was only because she generally wasn't working outside the home.

Hell, if some guy was paying all my bills and generally treating me decent, stuff like that would be no problem (unless we had thirteen kids or some shit like that, aiiiii..). It just doesn't happen that much anymore. Never mind feminism and the ERA, the economy doesn't permit it. 



Scantily-Clad Inspector of Gigantic and Unnecessary Cashews, Texas Division

Luna

Quote from: Bu☆ns on May 31, 2012, 12:23:22 AM
Quote from: Luna on May 31, 2012, 12:09:49 AM
Quote from: Bu☆ns on May 30, 2012, 11:55:55 PM
Absolutely...and I think this is precisely the stigma attached to the masculine role today.  It's one thing to perhaps get up on stage and joke about the differences between men an women and another to take the jokes as absolute truth.

Another one that comes to mind is the whole, "Real men don't cry or show emotion" thing.  I mean this shit was beaten into my head for as far back as I can remember.  Even the Maassi teens, while they're getting their foreskin cut off have to not show any form of emotion or they fail the test. It's pretty weird.

Want weird?  A man who, on the day he gets married, decides that (despite the fact that she works as many hours as he does) he never has to cook, do laundry, clean, or wash a fucking dish again.

Don't think he ever forgave me for disabusing him of THAT particular notion.  Fuckhead.
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"My father says that almost the whole world is asleep. Everybody you know, everybody you see, everybody you talk to. He says that only a few people are awake, and they live in a state of constant, total amazement."

Quote from: The Payne on November 16, 2011, 07:08:55 PM
If Luna was a furry, she'd sex humans and scream "BEASTIALITY!" at the top of her lungs at inopportune times.

Quote from: Nigel on March 24, 2011, 01:54:48 AM
I like the Luna one. She is a good one.

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"Stop talking to yourself.  You don't like you any better than anyone else who knows you."

Bu🤠ns

Quote from: Luna on May 31, 2012, 12:09:49 AM
Quote from: Bu☆ns on May 31, 2012, 12:23:22 AM
Quote from: Luna on May 31, 2012, 12:09:49 AM
Quote from: Bu☆ns on May 30, 2012, 11:55:55 PM
Absolutely...and I think this is precisely the stigma attached to the masculine role today.  It's one thing to perhaps get up on stage and joke about the differences between men an women and another to take the jokes as absolute truth.

Another one that comes to mind is the whole, "Real men don't cry or show emotion" thing.  I mean this shit was beaten into my head for as far back as I can remember.  Even the Maassi teens, while they're getting their foreskin cut off have to not show any form of emotion or they fail the test. It's pretty weird.

Want weird?  A man who, on the day he gets married, decides that (despite the fact that she works as many hours as he does) he never has to cook, do laundry, clean, or wash a fucking dish again.

:lulz:

Oh no!, Luna!
Don't think he ever forgave me for disabusing him of THAT particular notion.  Fuckhead.

Thing is I have to suspect that he learned that behavior from probably the male figures in his life while growing up.  To me, this is the sort of thing that men need to move away from.  It's almost like we need to redefine the role while incorporating the new values and the economy (thanks Anna Mae) of today.

Elder Iptuous

Quote from: Bu☆ns on May 30, 2012, 11:55:55 PM
Another one that comes to mind is the whole, "Real men don't cry or show emotion" thing.  I mean this shit was beaten into my head for as far back as I can remember.  Even the Maassi teens, while they're getting their foreskin cut off have to not show any form of emotion or they fail the test. It's pretty weird.

It seems straight-forward to me.
a test of strength in self control.
if i see some person enduring some intense pain without flinching, it demands respect...

Bu🤠ns

Quote from: Elder Iptuous on May 31, 2012, 04:33:24 AM
Quote from: Bu☆ns on May 30, 2012, 11:55:55 PM
Another one that comes to mind is the whole, "Real men don't cry or show emotion" thing.  I mean this shit was beaten into my head for as far back as I can remember.  Even the Maassi teens, while they're getting their foreskin cut off have to not show any form of emotion or they fail the test. It's pretty weird.

It seems straight-forward to me.
a test of strength in self control.
if i see some person enduring some intense pain without flinching, it demands respect...


Well yes, I get why--just that this idea of withholding emotion has maintained to this day in ways that don't really jive with what makes a healthy human being.  If it happened to me, I'm sure I'd fucking flinch...I'd flinch the fuck out...but that doesn't necessarily make me less of a man.

Elder Iptuous


Epimetheus

Make a distinction between
Being strong enough that pain does not affect who you are at your core
and
Not being able to express your feelings fully & genuinely
POST-SINGULARITY POCKET ORGASM TOAD OF RIGHTEOUSNESS

Anna Mae Bollocks

And there's no reason for any of that to be mutually exclusive, the ideal would be the ability to express or hide pain according to the situation.
Scantily-Clad Inspector of Gigantic and Unnecessary Cashews, Texas Division

Epimetheus

Quote from: Anna Mae Bollocks on May 31, 2012, 07:29:04 AM
And there's no reason for any of that to be mutually exclusive, the ideal would be the ability to express or hide pain according to the situation.

True, although my personal ideal would be a society where people could always express their feelings openly...
POST-SINGULARITY POCKET ORGASM TOAD OF RIGHTEOUSNESS

Cain

Quote from: Bu☆ns on May 31, 2012, 04:56:23 AM
Quote from: Elder Iptuous on May 31, 2012, 04:33:24 AM
Quote from: Bu☆ns on May 30, 2012, 11:55:55 PM
Another one that comes to mind is the whole, "Real men don't cry or show emotion" thing.  I mean this shit was beaten into my head for as far back as I can remember.  Even the Maassi teens, while they're getting their foreskin cut off have to not show any form of emotion or they fail the test. It's pretty weird.

It seems straight-forward to me.
a test of strength in self control.
if i see some person enduring some intense pain without flinching, it demands respect...


Well yes, I get why--just that this idea of withholding emotion has maintained to this day in ways that don't really jive with what makes a healthy human being.  If it happened to me, I'm sure I'd fucking flinch...I'd flinch the fuck out...but that doesn't necessarily make me less of a man.

If you flinched sufficiently far enough, it would make you less of a man (castration lol).

Cain

Also it seems to me that Bly's theory can be summed up as "there is a global feminist conspiracy to sap and depurify our precious bodily fluids".

Cain

Sorry, that should read "feminism and industrial society".

No doubt he also thinks we live in an age of "post-heroic war" and such.  That's not so much Carl Jung as it is Ernst Junger.

The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: Secret Agent GARBO on May 30, 2012, 11:07:13 PM
I'm sorry, but a lot of this smells like the "men's rights" movement. And, uh, fuck that. "Oh noes! Male men are not being required to stick to traditional gender roles for 'men'! This is some how damaging to my own manliness!"

It's more a primitivist thing than a reaction to feminism.  The world has become too complicated, you see, and these guys want to go back to banging on drums to pretend that it's not as complicated.  They don't want to go back to the days before the benefits of those complications (indoor plumbing, pennicillin, etc), they just want to spend a day or two playing make-believe.

They know something is wrong with their culture, but they don't know precisely what it is.  So, instead of examining the culture and looking for solutions, they run and hide behind faux-primitive rituals.



" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: Epimetheus on May 31, 2012, 07:54:40 AM
Quote from: Anna Mae Bollocks on May 31, 2012, 07:29:04 AM
And there's no reason for any of that to be mutually exclusive, the ideal would be the ability to express or hide pain according to the situation.

True, although my personal ideal would be a society where people could always express their feelings openly...

Imagine a world full of TGRR.  Nothing is hidden.  Everything is bellowed at a volume that assists the conveyance of my current mood. 
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Elder Iptuous

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 31, 2012, 02:00:30 PM
Quote from: Epimetheus on May 31, 2012, 07:54:40 AM
Quote from: Anna Mae Bollocks on May 31, 2012, 07:29:04 AM
And there's no reason for any of that to be mutually exclusive, the ideal would be the ability to express or hide pain according to the situation.

True, although my personal ideal would be a society where people could always express their feelings openly...

Imagine a world full of TGRR.  Nothing is hidden.  Everything is bellowed at a volume that assists the conveyance of my current mood.

... are you trying to make the overweight, sock tan, cubicle dweller banging on a bongo sound relatively pleasant?
:p