Fuck it, I'll put you assknockers in my annotated bibliography. BARBIE TALK!

[Freeky]

QUESTION: What role does Barbie play in poor self esteem and body image in women?

I think we might need someone to play devil's advocate, where the fuck is Ippie?

[Elder Iptuous]

present!
what's my view on the matter to be? 

[Freeky]

Your view should be something along the lines (I mena, if it isn't already) of "What the fuck are you talking about, Barbie has nothing to do with anything!"

[Elder Iptuous]

oh....
hmmm. that's pretty extreme given the ubiquity of the barbie doll in our culture...
perhaps i could just go with the position that it a bit overstated?

[Freeky]

Hypothesis:  Barbie is both an effect of social engineering and media obsession of unnaturally (unhealthy?) thin and tall women of a particular body type and a cause of the general population's obsession over body image, though it is by no means the biggest cause.  Barbie may be one of the earliest contributors in a woman's life to obsessing over body image, however.

[Forsooth]

people notice they don't have the same proportions and eternal smile that barbie does (because hey, its vaguely humanoid looking), so they start to think they can't be happy unless KNOCKERSTALLORANGE

then they notice that the social norm is to want to come as close to barbie as they can, and they feel left out

responses to that are: sadness, anger, and rarely not giving a fuck about an intentionally idealized children's doll

[Freeky]

oh....
hmmm. that's pretty extreme given the ubiquity of the barbie doll in our culture...
perhaps i could just go with the position that it a bit overstated?

As long as you are against the idea that Barbie makes women want to get plastic surgery and lipo and so on, yeah. 

[The Good Reverend Roger]

QUESTION: What role does Barbie play in poor self esteem and body image in women?

I think we might need someone to play devil's advocate, where the fuck is Ippie?

Barbie is an effect that has partially become a cause.  It was marketed as a stepford wives version of America, because in the 40s and 50s, everyone wanted their daughters to grow up to be stepford wives.  It's been driving the "perfect 1950s female ideal" ever since, a monster that is indeed our national, reversed "portrait of Dorian Grey".  Barbie is unchanging; the nation has become obese and sour.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

oh....
hmmm. that's pretty extreme given the ubiquity of the barbie doll in our culture...
perhaps i could just go with the position that it a bit overstated?

As long as you are against the idea that Barbie makes women want to get plastic surgery and lipo and so on, yeah.

You're eating the menu.  Barbie is the symbol of what women are told to be.  A demonstration model, if you will.  It is no more a cause than is Cosmopolitan magazine.  If society didn't already want these things, none of them would sell.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

Yeah, we need a devil's advocate.

Some lady had an idea a long time ago to make a doll that didn't look like a dimpled-knee toddler. It was a good idea but it got away from her. I mean, the direction it should have taken IMHO is more kinds of dolls to represent more kinds of people. Little kids aren't thinking about Paris Hilton when they get that first Barbie, they're playing out what they know and if they don't have a doll to represent grandpa, they'll use a bear or something. It's kind of weird to pound it into their heads that THIS ONE TYPE OF PERSON IS IMPORTANT ENOUGH TO RATE A BAZILLION DOLLS and nobody else is really represented much.

The only real backlash I've seen that went anyplace is Bratz, and those are just hip hop Barbies. My daughter preferred Bratz to those preppie Barbies, but it's the same shit.

All the devil's advocate I can muster is that Barbie gets scapegoated for something that's happening PRETTY MUCH EVERYWHERE YOU LOOK. That's why Britney and Miley have recording contracts. (I suspect the Disney Channel is doing a LOT more damage than Barbie.) Big Mama Thorton wouldn't have a prayer these days unless she could afford a fuckload of surgery.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

oh....
hmmm. that's pretty extreme given the ubiquity of the barbie doll in our culture...
perhaps i could just go with the position that it a bit overstated?

As long as you are against the idea that Barbie makes women want to get plastic surgery and lipo and so on, yeah.

You're eating the menu.  Barbie is the symbol of what women are told to be.  A demonstration model, if you will.  It is no more a cause than is Cosmopolitan magazine.  If society didn't already want these things, none of them would sell.

Seven replies went up while I was typing and I just kept hitting 'post' before I looked at them.  This one stands out.

And yes, she's a Stepford Wife. Of course now she has CAREERS like DOCTOR and ROCKSTAR but it's the same shit. A STEPFORD WIFE WHO MAKES A FUCKTON OF MONEY!

[00.dusk]

QUESTION: What role does Barbie play in poor self esteem and body image in women?

I think we might need someone to play devil's advocate, where the fuck is Ippie?

Barbie is an effect that has partially become a cause.  It was marketed as a stepford wives version of America, because in the 40s and 50s, everyone wanted their daughters to grow up to be stepford wives.  It's been driving the "perfect 1950s female ideal" ever since, a monster that is indeed our national, reversed "portrait of Dorian Grey".  Barbie is unchanging; the nation has become obese and sour.

Given that I've never thought of Barbie at all beyond the obvious impact on body image in young girls, this was as much of a nasty wakeup call as a crowbar to the sternum. Shortness of breath and CERTAINTY that there is internal bleeding included.

It's insane how steeped our culture is in the 40s and 50s.  We relive WW2 vicariously over and over and over. We focus on 1950s ideals. The 1950s is our "golden age of prosperity". And yet if you really look back, those fuckers didn't have so much that makes our current ... i dunno what the term would be, so I'll just coin the word "infoclimate" -- that makes our current infoclimate possible. And the parts of the time period that our culture glorifies are always the most deeply unsettling ones.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

oh....
hmmm. that's pretty extreme given the ubiquity of the barbie doll in our culture...
perhaps i could just go with the position that it a bit overstated?

As long as you are against the idea that Barbie makes women want to get plastic surgery and lipo and so on, yeah.

You're eating the menu.  Barbie is the symbol of what women are told to be.  A demonstration model, if you will.  It is no more a cause than is Cosmopolitan magazine.  If society didn't already want these things, none of them would sell.

Seven replies went up while I was typing and I just kept hitting 'post' before I looked at them.  This one stands out.

And yes, she's a Stepford Wife. Of course now she has CAREERS like DOCTOR and ROCKSTAR but it's the same shit. A STEPFORD WIFE WHO MAKES A FUCKTON OF MONEY!

Let me know when they have "mechanic barbie" or "garbage man barbie".

It also occurs to me that we've been capitalizing "barbie", which is in itself offensive.

[Elder Iptuous]

bratz dolls are going to establish the notion that hydrocephalic women are hawt.
then we'll see the true horrors of plastic surgery.

[Freeky]

oh....
hmmm. that's pretty extreme given the ubiquity of the barbie doll in our culture...
perhaps i could just go with the position that it a bit overstated?

As long as you are against the idea that Barbie makes women want to get plastic surgery and lipo and so on, yeah.

You're eating the menu.  Barbie is the symbol of what women are told to be.  A demonstration model, if you will.  It is no more a cause than is Cosmopolitan magazine.  If society didn't already want these things, none of them would sell.

No, I know exactly what Barbie is.  The doll itself, like I said in the fluff thread, is a thing.  But, and this is another part of my hypothesis, it is a thing that people need, like they need air and water and nutrients.  People who are against this idealized and perfect body, and realize that this is an unattainable issue, need to point at something and call it evil, and they have chosen something they can't hurt, but it is a thing that hurts--or once did hurt--them.