Discordian Feminists

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

He DID say this about feminism, when my mother became heavily involved in battered women shelters and the woman's liberation movement, back in the day (this is from memory, so it's not verbatim):

"I don't really understand what all the fuss is about.  In my day, men and women had their places in society, and those places were pretty well set in stone.  But this isn't my day anymore, and I seem to  prefer your (my mother's) day, now that I think about it."

I don't think I ever heard an old person say something like that. 

As far as people who let the bosses walk all over them, he usually just snickered in a nasty way.

You should hear what Clint Eastwood has to say about the Gay marriage issue.

I just figured he was always ok with gay people. Hollywood and all.
It doesn't seem like a strident homophobe would make it there.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

He DID say this about feminism, when my mother became heavily involved in battered women shelters and the woman's liberation movement, back in the day (this is from memory, so it's not verbatim):

"I don't really understand what all the fuss is about.  In my day, men and women had their places in society, and those places were pretty well set in stone.  But this isn't my day anymore, and I seem to  prefer your (my mother's) day, now that I think about it."

I don't think I ever heard an old person say something like that. 

As far as people who let the bosses walk all over them, he usually just snickered in a nasty way.

You should hear what Clint Eastwood has to say about the Gay marriage issue.

I just figured he was always ok with gay people. Hollywood and all.
It doesn't seem like a strident homophobe would make it there.

In the October issue of GQ Magazine, the steely gazed slab of machismo says he doesn't think gay marriage should be such a controversial issue.

"These people who are making a big deal about gay marriage?" Eastwood tells the magazine. "I don't give a fuck about who wants to get married to anybody else! Why not?! We're making a big deal out of things we shouldn't be making a deal out of ... Just give everybody the chance to have the life they want."

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/09/13/us-clinteastwood-idUSTRE78C7XZ20110913

[The Johnny]

When i used to be a non-denominational christian, i thought women should be treated equally as men.

Why? Because even under a christian ideology, for someone that has 2 neurons to rub together can infer from "we are all god's children and he loves us equally" what it means.

To me this isnt about discordia or feminism, its about having the humility and awareness to know that anything i didnt work for, cannot and doesnt make me better than anyone else.

Otherwise its just riding the bandwagon of unfounded illegitimate privilege.

[Pope Pixie Pickle]

Roger, your grandfather sounds like he was awesome. As does your mum.

[tyrannosaurus vex]

When i used to be a non-denominational christian, i thought women should be treated equally as men.

Why? Because even under a christian ideology, for someone that has 2 neurons to rub together can infer from "we are all god's children and he loves us equally" what it means.

To me this isnt about discordia or feminism, its about having the humility and awareness to know that anything i didnt work for, cannot and doesnt make me better than anyone else.

Otherwise its just riding the bandwagon of unfounded illegitimate privilege.

Actual Christian doctrine doesnt support gender equality. Fundamentalists are correct in their assertion of male social supremacy, according to the actual Biblical teachings. Newer, more politically correct interpretations ignore the historical beliefs. I believe in gender equality, but Christians arent supposed to. The only way they can is by tossing out established teachings, in which case they might as well just throw away Christianity altogether, which I would suggest they do.

[The Dark Monk]

Up until I was about 13 and went through my teenage years, I looked at people for who they are: people. Then I went through a phase where nigger spic and clean my kitchen were the hip trend of the week, and now I'm back to my kid ideals. I hit back into that about 16 when I realized stupid people are stupid and trimmed down the amount of people I like.
For my entire life besides those 3 years my philosophy has been do what you want unless you hurt someone else in the process.
It may come from a self centered point of view, but I don't care who you sleep with. I don't care whether you got a dick or a vagina.
I don't care if you're Kenyan, Paki, Korean, Irish, German. I never have, though I might quite enjoy your tan or negative of it :P
You can fold your insides to outsides, you can get tattoos, piercings, dress the way you like, listen to what you like.
People are beautiful because of their insides, and not in the porno type way.
How I see people and judge them, we all do because we are human, is through experiences they have enlightened me with and how they have dealt with and learned from such experiences. That may seem like a schoolyard generalization but I took that to heart. If someone is doomed to repeat their mistakes over and over and refuse to grow, I generally dislike them. PD is a great place because of the mix of cultures and personal lives, and with that comes multiple points of view. I wouldn't say I'm a feminist. I wouldn't say I'm a gay rights advocate. I wouldn't say I'm a race equivalency advocate. I will say I am an advocate of happiness and contentment, and by that I mean everyone should have the opportunity to be happy no matter what they do, regardless of any other issue people come up with. Maybe in that explanation it envelopes all the LGBT ideals, and feminist ideals and racial ideals, though I myself find it different as I do not see men/women/black/white/gay/straight. I see human beings suffering or being dealt a card where their lives are unsatisfactory, and that is wrong in every case where someone becomes exceptional, works hard, becomes intelligent, and is punished by others for being so. That is the cause I fight for every day, the way I raise my children, the daily discussions my wifey and I have. 

[The Good Reverend Roger]

When i used to be a non-denominational christian, i thought women should be treated equally as men.

Why? Because even under a christian ideology, for someone that has 2 neurons to rub together can infer from "we are all god's children and he loves us equally" what it means.

To me this isnt about discordia or feminism, its about having the humility and awareness to know that anything i didnt work for, cannot and doesnt make me better than anyone else.

Otherwise its just riding the bandwagon of unfounded illegitimate privilege.

Actual Christian doctrine doesnt support gender equality. Fundamentalists are correct in their assertion of male social supremacy, according to the actual Biblical teachings. Newer, more politically correct interpretations ignore the historical beliefs. I believe in gender equality, but Christians arent supposed to. The only way they can is by tossing out established teachings, in which case they might as well just throw away Christianity altogether, which I would suggest they do.

Read the Apocrypha, specifically Benjamin & Ruth (the Apocrypha Benjamin & Ruth are distinct from the other books of Benjamin & Ruth, who were different people).

[tyrannosaurus vex]

When i used to be a non-denominational christian, i thought women should be treated equally as men.

Why? Because even under a christian ideology, for someone that has 2 neurons to rub together can infer from "we are all god's children and he loves us equally" what it means.

To me this isnt about discordia or feminism, its about having the humility and awareness to know that anything i didnt work for, cannot and doesnt make me better than anyone else.

Otherwise its just riding the bandwagon of unfounded illegitimate privilege.

Actual Christian doctrine doesnt support gender equality. Fundamentalists are correct in their assertion of male social supremacy, according to the actual Biblical teachings. Newer, more politically correct interpretations ignore the historical beliefs. I believe in gender equality, but Christians arent supposed to. The only way they can is by tossing out established teachings, in which case they might as well just throw away Christianity altogether, which I would suggest they do.

Read the Apocrypha, specifically Benjamin & Ruth (the Apocrypha Benjamin & Ruth are distinct from the other books of Benjamin & Ruth, who were different people).

I'm not saying there weren't ideas about equality back then, nor am I advocating the hard-line fundamentalist position. But for over a thousand years, Christianity like most middle-eastern death cults was very strict about gender roles and social pecking order. Whether the underlying "message" of the religion can be bent in more modern directions is irrelevant: Christianity as a religion has a central identity that espouses male-dominated society and literal servitude for women. To deny this identity is to back out of Christianity altogether, because that identity is as central to the premise of that religion as the very "salvation" it offers. If you're going to go as far as ignoring centuries of male dominance just because society doesn't see things that way anymore, you might as well walk the other couple of steps to just dropping the religion altogether, since you're not longer a believer in it as it was intended in the beginning.

[The Johnny]

When i used to be a non-denominational christian, i thought women should be treated equally as men.

Why? Because even under a christian ideology, for someone that has 2 neurons to rub together can infer from "we are all god's children and he loves us equally" what it means.

To me this isnt about discordia or feminism, its about having the humility and awareness to know that anything i didnt work for, cannot and doesnt make me better than anyone else.

Otherwise its just riding the bandwagon of unfounded illegitimate privilege.

Actual Christian doctrine doesnt support gender equality. Fundamentalists are correct in their assertion of male social supremacy, according to the actual Biblical teachings. Newer, more politically correct interpretations ignore the historical beliefs. I believe in gender equality, but Christians arent supposed to. The only way they can is by tossing out established teachings, in which case they might as well just throw away Christianity altogether, which I would suggest they do.

Read the Apocrypha, specifically Benjamin & Ruth (the Apocrypha Benjamin & Ruth are distinct from the other books of Benjamin & Ruth, who were different people).

I'm not saying there weren't ideas about equality back then, nor am I advocating the hard-line fundamentalist position. But for over a thousand years, Christianity like most middle-eastern death cults was very strict about gender roles and social pecking order. Whether the underlying "message" of the religion can be bent in more modern directions is irrelevant: Christianity as a religion has a central identity that espouses male-dominated society and literal servitude for women. To deny this identity is to back out of Christianity altogether, because that identity is as central to the premise of that religion as the very "salvation" it offers. If you're going to go as far as ignoring centuries of male dominance just because society doesn't see things that way anymore, you might as well walk the other couple of steps to just dropping the religion altogether, since you're not longer a believer in it as it was intended in the beginning.

The Old Testament with all that hijinx about Eve being made from a rib and other examples undermine women.

But can that be said about the New Testament? Doesnt it revolve more about love and all that stuff?

[East Coast Hustle]

Vex, are you trying to apply logic to True Believers?

Go kick yourself in the nuts, twice, then say ten "Hail Pat Robertsons" and reflect on the nature of your folly.

[The Johnny]

Im not trying to be a contrarian, but the premise of the question just doesnt sit right to me.

Also, to the menz, how has discordianism influenced your attitude towards feminism?

I feel as if the premise is that discordia changes one's way of thinking about things, when in, at least my case, I arrived to discordia because of what i already believed in or how i thought about things.

[tyrannosaurus vex]

When i used to be a non-denominational christian, i thought women should be treated equally as men.

Why? Because even under a christian ideology, for someone that has 2 neurons to rub together can infer from "we are all god's children and he loves us equally" what it means.

To me this isnt about discordia or feminism, its about having the humility and awareness to know that anything i didnt work for, cannot and doesnt make me better than anyone else.

Otherwise its just riding the bandwagon of unfounded illegitimate privilege.

Actual Christian doctrine doesnt support gender equality. Fundamentalists are correct in their assertion of male social supremacy, according to the actual Biblical teachings. Newer, more politically correct interpretations ignore the historical beliefs. I believe in gender equality, but Christians arent supposed to. The only way they can is by tossing out established teachings, in which case they might as well just throw away Christianity altogether, which I would suggest they do.

Read the Apocrypha, specifically Benjamin & Ruth (the Apocrypha Benjamin & Ruth are distinct from the other books of Benjamin & Ruth, who were different people).

I'm not saying there weren't ideas about equality back then, nor am I advocating the hard-line fundamentalist position. But for over a thousand years, Christianity like most middle-eastern death cults was very strict about gender roles and social pecking order. Whether the underlying "message" of the religion can be bent in more modern directions is irrelevant: Christianity as a religion has a central identity that espouses male-dominated society and literal servitude for women. To deny this identity is to back out of Christianity altogether, because that identity is as central to the premise of that religion as the very "salvation" it offers. If you're going to go as far as ignoring centuries of male dominance just because society doesn't see things that way anymore, you might as well walk the other couple of steps to just dropping the religion altogether, since you're not longer a believer in it as it was intended in the beginning.

The Old Testament with all that hijinx about Eve being made from a rib and other examples undermine women.

But can that be said about the New Testament? Doesnt it revolve more about love and all that stuff?

Um... no. That's just what the happy-feely "let's talk about what we wish the bible said instead of what it really says" Christians might say, but in reality, the New Testament isn't much better.

From 1 Corinthians, we learn that:
* In every household, the man is the head of the woman.
* Every woman who uncovers her head while praying defiles her head.
* It is disgraceful for a woman to shave or cut her hair.
* Women should keep silent in churches, and not be permitted to speak. If they want to learn something, let them ask their husbands. At home.

AND MORE: http://bible.org/seriespage/new-testament-church—-role-women

[Pope Pixie Pickle]

Im not trying to be a contrarian, but the premise of the question just doesnt sit right to me.

Also, to the menz, how has discordianism influenced your attitude towards feminism?

Well, being as I have never had any real crap from discordians about feminist stuff, there are probably misogynistic douchebags who are discordian, but I've never met any.   In a way, discordianism at its core attempts to break people from their social conditioning, if you get my meaning, and so they are less likely to buy into certain cultural memes or tropes, like the whole Straw Feminist thing, and are more likely to see cultural conditioning in effect... does that clarify it?

[East Coast Hustle]

I suppose I should clarify my earlier response: Discordianism hasn't had any influence on my attitude towards feminism. It may have had some influence on my attitude towards women.

[Juana]

Discordianism reminds me that while I might add a word (in this case "feminist") to the pile of them I use to explain part of myself, I oughtn't get too attached to it. It's a convenient word I use to define and denote my agreement with a specific concept, and that's all it should ever be. Otherwise it turns into a uniform.
It also helps remind me that different grids will produce different and equally valid interpretations of feminism. Womanism, for example, is a feminism more relatable for women of color (according to what little reading on it I have done) than "traditional" feminism, which is rather white. That's just as valid as 'traditional' - white, middle or upper class - feminism is.


Related to the bad rap the word 'feminism' has acquired, I don't see that as a reason to dump it. Fuck that. The word, at it's most basic, means believing in women. And I will not give that up because a bunch of misogynists have made "believing in women" a bad thing.