A curiosity about the South, for people who live here

[East Coast Hustle]

And GA may have her head firmly up her poop chute, but that doesn't mean she wasn't right about alot of what she said. Which is kind of the point, that the discussion here needs to move beyond emotional knee-jerk shit if any sort of real understanding is to be had.

[Freeky]

#5 is particularly embarrassing and offensive, IMO. 

[tyrannosaurus vex]

#5 is particularly embarrassing and offensive, IMO. 

But it's one of my favorite things to point out at family functions. It shuts people up, and at a family gathering, silence is as rare and valuable as diamonds.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Cain was talking about military/political strategy, not the entire culture of a region.

As for everyone else, that's why I said "implied stance".

I'd really prefer to advance my own arguments.  I am not, I believe, known for pussy-footing around.  If I was going to say it, I'd say it...No need for implying anything.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

And GA may have her head firmly up her poop chute, but that doesn't mean she wasn't right about alot of what she said. Which is kind of the point, that the discussion here needs to move beyond emotional knee-jerk shit if any sort of real understanding is to be had.

If the Klan is indeed only a social club, and a lack of Klan convictions by all-White juries from 1900-1975 is proof that the Klan is only a social club, then I suppose you are correct concerning her motivations.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

And to be fair, the vast majority of my experience in the south comes from tidewater Virginia, which seems to have done a better job of ditching the rampant racism than other places in the south I've been. But none of that changes my point, which is that simply falling back on the "southerners are racist rednecks" trope does nothing to advance the racial and cultural dialogue and, in a large-scale application, makes it a mortal-lock cinch that southerners are gonna cling even harder to their cultural cues (both good and bad) in the face of regional bigotry.

Nobody's saying "all southerners". I was born in Houston, FFS. Squiddy's in Florida of all places, Emo Howard mentioned being a southerner, there's a lot of us.
There's individuals and little pockets or enclaves or what have you, areas where it's better or worse. Austin strikes me as being better, generally, than a lot of places up north. But as a whole, yes, the south is worse.

[Freeky]

#5 is particularly embarrassing and offensive, IMO. 

But it's one of my favorite things to point out at family functions. It shuts people up, and at a family gathering, silence is as rare and valuable as diamonds.

I know. I am still kicking myself over lost opportunities of correcting certain family members' behavior.

[East Coast Hustle]

Cain was talking about military/political strategy, not the entire culture of a region.

As for everyone else, that's why I said "implied stance".

I'd really prefer to advance my own arguments.  I am not, I believe, known for pussy-footing around.  If I was going to say it, I'd say it...No need for implying anything.

I think you're still missing my point. Resorting to the "southerners are racist rednecks" trope automatically implies some bigotry on the part of the person using the trope (whether conscious or not) and, by extension, makes it that much less likely that their input on the subject is going to be taken seriously or even considered at all, except by other people who already agree that southerners are a bunch of racist rednecks. So if preaching to the choir and/or maintaining a feedback loop are your goals, then it works just fine. If the idea is to find the root cause of some of the more unfortunate adjuncts to southern culture, then it's cutting off your nose to spite your face.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Cain was talking about military/political strategy, not the entire culture of a region.

As for everyone else, that's why I said "implied stance".

I'd really prefer to advance my own arguments.  I am not, I believe, known for pussy-footing around.  If I was going to say it, I'd say it...No need for implying anything.

I think you're still missing my point. Resorting to the "southerners are racist rednecks" trope automatically implies some bigotry on the part of the person using the trope (whether conscious or not) and, by extension, makes it that much less likely that their input on the subject is going to be taken seriously or even considered at all, except by other people who already agree that southerners are a bunch of racist rednecks. So if preaching to the choir and/or maintaining a feedback loop are your goals, then it works just fine. If the idea is to find the root cause of some of the more unfortunate adjuncts to southern culture, then it's cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Okay.

[East Coast Hustle]

And GA may have her head firmly up her poop chute, but that doesn't mean she wasn't right about alot of what she said. Which is kind of the point, that the discussion here needs to move beyond emotional knee-jerk shit if any sort of real understanding is to be had.

If the Klan is indeed only a social club, and a lack of Klan convictions by all-White juries from 1900-1975 is proof that the Klan is only a social club, then I suppose you are correct concerning her motivations.

If her idiotic remarks about the KKK completely invalidate everything else she said, then I suppose YOU are correct. About something.

And I could really give a shit about her motivations. Those aren't what we're discussing. Or even anything I remotely care about.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

The Southwestern meme is:

1.  "Rugged individualist".  There are about 5 actual rugged individualists.  The rest are land whales.

2.  "Git offa my propitty".  Aw, I was just so desparate to tromp all over YOUR coyote poop, seeing as how it's so Goddamn different than all the OTHER coyote poop.

3.  "MAH GUNS!  DERE TRYIN' TA TAKE MAH GUNS!"  We have the least gun control in the country.

4.  "We're better than those soft Easterners."...Spoken by a guy wearing size 50 jeans.

5.  "Those damn illegals all over the place."  80% of our Hispanics are 3-7th generation Arizonans.  Note that this can and does predate Arizona as a state or even a territory.

6.  "Fucking California."  We're California without the water or the veneer of class.

Again, this isn't complete.

May I suggest the white ranchers motto "IF IT DON'T MAKE ME MONEY IT NEEDS TO BE GOT RID OF"

[East Coast Hustle]

And to be fair, the vast majority of my experience in the south comes from tidewater Virginia, which seems to have done a better job of ditching the rampant racism than other places in the south I've been. But none of that changes my point, which is that simply falling back on the "southerners are racist rednecks" trope does nothing to advance the racial and cultural dialogue and, in a large-scale application, makes it a mortal-lock cinch that southerners are gonna cling even harder to their cultural cues (both good and bad) in the face of regional bigotry.

Nobody's saying "all southerners". I was born in Houston, FFS. Squiddy's in Florida of all places, Emo Howard mentioned being a southerner, there's a lot of us.
There's individuals and little pockets or enclaves or what have you, areas where it's better or worse. Austin strikes me as being better, generally, than a lot of places up north. But as a whole, yes, the south is worse.

I'd argue that neither Texas nor Florida are part of "The South". But that's beside the point. The point is that statements like "as a whole, the south is worse" are exactly what I'm talking about. Worse than what?

[Freeky]

And to be fair, the vast majority of my experience in the south comes from tidewater Virginia, which seems to have done a better job of ditching the rampant racism than other places in the south I've been. But none of that changes my point, which is that simply falling back on the "southerners are racist rednecks" trope does nothing to advance the racial and cultural dialogue and, in a large-scale application, makes it a mortal-lock cinch that southerners are gonna cling even harder to their cultural cues (both good and bad) in the face of regional bigotry.

I think this was echelons's point, of dismissing the people in the region as worse than us and leaving it at that, instead of acknowledging that the behavior we are engaging in also fuels more tension and grudges.?

Nobody's saying "all southerners". I was born in Houston, FFS. Squiddy's in Florida of all places, Emo Howard mentioned being a southerner, there's a lot of us.
There's individuals and little pockets or enclaves or what have you, areas where it's better or worse. Austin strikes me as being better, generally, than a lot of places up north. But as a whole, yes, the south is worse.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

And to be fair, the vast majority of my experience in the south comes from tidewater Virginia, which seems to have done a better job of ditching the rampant racism than other places in the south I've been. But none of that changes my point, which is that simply falling back on the "southerners are racist rednecks" trope does nothing to advance the racial and cultural dialogue and, in a large-scale application, makes it a mortal-lock cinch that southerners are gonna cling even harder to their cultural cues (both good and bad) in the face of regional bigotry.

Nobody's saying "all southerners". I was born in Houston, FFS. Squiddy's in Florida of all places, Emo Howard mentioned being a southerner, there's a lot of us.
There's individuals and little pockets or enclaves or what have you, areas where it's better or worse. Austin strikes me as being better, generally, than a lot of places up north. But as a whole, yes, the south is worse.

I'd argue that neither Texas nor Florida are part of "The South". But that's beside the point. The point is that statements like "as a whole, the south is worse" are exactly what I'm talking about. Worse than what?

Texas fought for the Confederacy.

After the Republic, Sam Houston had sense enough to want Texas to join the Union but the yahoos pretty much said "fuck off". The rebels marched right past Sam's house in Huntsville on their way to fight and called him a traitor.

Bet old Sam had the last laugh, though. 

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I was right and EOT was wrong.  I need to stay out of this conversation.