Discordian Feminists

[EK WAFFLR]

Most people who identilfy as "feminists" in Norway are of the radical kind, so the word has long had negative connotations in my brain.

Define "radical" in this context, please.

I quickly read up on terms a bit here, to answer this better, and "radical" may have been the wrong word.
What I did mean was that the loud majority of feminists in Norway are of the Andrea Dworkin type.

That's not feminism, it's misandry.

Oh, I've come to realise that, but for many years, that was what feminism looked like to me.

And that is exactly what is used as an example of feminism by misogynists and Cletii.

I know, and when I realised that, that was when I started to look beyond the extremism. Because when stupid people say that "this is feminism", I know they're most likely wrong.

[P3nT4gR4m]

Most people who identilfy as "feminists" in Norway are of the radical kind, so the word has long had negative connotations in my brain.

Define "radical" in this context, please.

I quickly read up on terms a bit here, to answer this better, and "radical" may have been the wrong word.
What I did mean was that the loud majority of feminists in Norway are of the Andrea Dworkin type.

That's not feminism, it's misandry.

Oh, I've come to realise that, but for many years, that was what feminism looked like to me.

And that is exactly what is used as an example of feminism by misogynists and Cletii.

The media were pretty big on pushing that shit a few years back, too. It's not so prevalent nowadays but I'm pretty sure there was an agenda there at the time.

[Kai]

A lot of the time the Radical wing of the feminist movement can be all people see of feminism, but I think i already mentioned the straw feminist trope that is most people's experience of feminism in the media.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radical_feminism
This is Wikipedia@s definition of Radical Feminism...

Straw feminism abounds.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Regardless of what the media presents, you can't be feminist and anti-male. Feminism in the true sense of the word requires a desire for empowerment and actualization for both sexes and all genders.

[Reginald Ret]

Regardless of what the media presents, you can't be feminist and anti-male. Feminism in the true sense of the word requires a desire for empowerment and actualization for all sexes and all genders.

Agreed, with a slight adaptation to include the full range of humans.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Regardless of what the media presents, you can't be feminist and anti-male. Feminism in the true sense of the word requires a desire for empowerment and actualization for all sexes and all genders.

Agreed, with a slight adaptation to include the full range of humans.

I'm pretty sure that you can be racist and feminist at the same time.

[Phox]

Regardless of what the media presents, you can't be feminist and anti-male. Feminism in the true sense of the word requires a desire for empowerment and actualization for all sexes and all genders.

Agreed, with a slight adaptation to include the full range of humans.

I'm pretty sure that you can be racist and feminist at the same time.

I think regret is referring to his subtle edit (where you said "both sexes", he said "all sexes").

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Regardless of what the media presents, you can't be feminist and anti-male. Feminism in the true sense of the word requires a desire for empowerment and actualization for all sexes and all genders.

Agreed, with a slight adaptation to include the full range of humans.

I'm pretty sure that you can be racist and feminist at the same time.

I think regret is referring to his subtle edit (where you said "both sexes", he said "all sexes").

Oh, got it. I tend to fall into the binary culture trap of thinking of intersex as "both" rather than as a third sex.

[Phox]

Regardless of what the media presents, you can't be feminist and anti-male. Feminism in the true sense of the word requires a desire for empowerment and actualization for all sexes and all genders.

Agreed, with a slight adaptation to include the full range of humans.

I'm pretty sure that you can be racist and feminist at the same time.

I think regret is referring to his subtle edit (where you said "both sexes", he said "all sexes").

Oh, got it. I tend to fall into the binary culture trap of thinking of intersex as "both" rather than as a third sex.

Yeah, I know where you're coming from. Funnily enough,  since you're normally very mindful about things like that, I had to read word for word both of your posts to spot it, actually. I guess when I first read your post, I sort of skimmed it enough to get the content and filled in the blanks with "What Phox thinks Nigel would say".

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Regardless of what the media presents, you can't be feminist and anti-male. Feminism in the true sense of the word requires a desire for empowerment and actualization for all sexes and all genders.

Agreed, with a slight adaptation to include the full range of humans.

I'm pretty sure that you can be racist and feminist at the same time.

I think regret is referring to his subtle edit (where you said "both sexes", he said "all sexes").

Oh, got it. I tend to fall into the binary culture trap of thinking of intersex as "both" rather than as a third sex.

Yeah, I know where you're coming from. Funnily enough,  since you're normally very mindful about things like that, I had to read word for word both of your posts to spot it, actually. I guess when I first read your post, I sort of skimmed it enough to get the content and filled in the blanks with "What Phox thinks Nigel would say".

I really gotta get better about that. I also appreciate having it pointed out, so I CAN get better about that.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

The thing is, too, that I find the binary treatment of intersex so distressing and I've been fascinated with it ever since I first learned that it is/was (thankfully becoming less predominant) standard practice to alter intersex infants so that they conform to either male or female physical identity, with NO knowledge or understanding of what their biology had laid out for them. I was even more appalled to learn that about 1 in 100 babies are born with chromosomes or sex organ development that differs from the binary, and are automatically tampered with regardless of whether their health calls for it.

[Telarus]

Yeah, that's disturbed me ever since I learned of the practice.

Regardless of what the media presents, you can't be feminist and anti-male. Feminism in the true sense of the word requires a desire for empowerment and actualization for both sexes and all genders.

I think RAW actually noticed the anti-male attitudes of "Feminism" (the Dworkin variety) back when he was still with us.

Ah yes, here it is (and this constantly get misrepresented by both RAW fanbois and anti-Model-Agnostics.. I've included a bit of the previous section for context):
http://www.realitysandwich.com/meeting_with_a_remarkable_man

Wilson: You know the nicest thing my wife ever said to me?

Prop: No.

Wilson: "If all men were like you, there would be no need for Feminism." Every time I think of that, I feel such a warm glow. She knew me pretty well. She had to, after 42 years.

Prop: That's quite a complement.

Wilson: The greatest complement I've ever received.

Prop: Well what are your views on Feminism these days?

Wilson: Well, there was a point where the most widely publicized of the feminists was the nut fringe, and they were talking about men the way Hitler talked about Jews. I was not at all reticent or shy about expressing that opinion, and continually pointing out the similarity there.

They're still around, but they're not as influential as they used to be. I've always supported Feminism, except for what the mass media projected in the 60s, 70s.

My wife was a feminist, her mother was a feminist, her grandmother was a feminist, we raised our daughters to be feminists. I am a feminist, as far as anybody with a willy can consider himself a feminist. I enthusiastically support all the goals of Feminism, except for that dingbat wing who really does want to get rid of men entirely. They don't bother me anymore, because the world's going to get rid of me pretty soon anyway, so I don't care.

But I do think men have certain qualities that should be preserved. In zoos at least.

So it seems that this was a split in the group of people who claimed the term during the 60s & 70s. I'm glad the crazies didn't get to re-define the term.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

Yeah, that's disturbed me ever since I learned of the practice.

Regardless of what the media presents, you can't be feminist and anti-male. Feminism in the true sense of the word requires a desire for empowerment and actualization for both sexes and all genders.

I think RAW actually noticed the anti-male attitudes of "Feminism" (the Dworkin variety) back when he was still with us.

Ah yes, here it is (and this constantly get misrepresented by both RAW fanbois and anti-Model-Agnostics.. I've included a bit of the previous section for context):
http://www.realitysandwich.com/meeting_with_a_remarkable_man

Wilson: You know the nicest thing my wife ever said to me?

Prop: No.

Wilson: "If all men were like you, there would be no need for Feminism." Every time I think of that, I feel such a warm glow. She knew me pretty well. She had to, after 42 years.

Prop: That's quite a complement.

Wilson: The greatest complement I've ever received.

Prop: Well what are your views on Feminism these days?

Wilson: Well, there was a point where the most widely publicized of the feminists was the nut fringe, and they were talking about men the way Hitler talked about Jews. I was not at all reticent or shy about expressing that opinion, and continually pointing out the similarity there.

They're still around, but they're not as influential as they used to be. I've always supported Feminism, except for what the mass media projected in the 60s, 70s.

My wife was a feminist, her mother was a feminist, her grandmother was a feminist, we raised our daughters to be feminists. I am a feminist, as far as anybody with a willy can consider himself a feminist. I enthusiastically support all the goals of Feminism, except for that dingbat wing who really does want to get rid of men entirely. They don't bother me anymore, because the world's going to get rid of me pretty soon anyway, so I don't care.

But I do think men have certain qualities that should be preserved. In zoos at least.

So it seems that this was a split in the group of people who claimed the term during the 60s & 70s. I'm glad the crazies didn't get to re-define the term.

The "woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle" crowd. Not that a woman can't survive or be happy without a man. Just the way they used to mean it. Like half of humanity is born to be utterly fucking useless. RAW was right.

[hooplala]

I think it missed now also that some of it was satire. 

Valerie Solanas, the nut who shot Andy Warhol also wrote one of the most famous "kill all men" pieces of literature, the SCUM manifesto.  And while she clearly went batshit insane later, and was violent, if you actually read the manifesto it is clearly tongue in cheek and written with a good deal of humor. 

and also... sometimes I think Andrea Dworkin was secretly working against feminism.