Question about punk rock from non-punk bands

[Suu]

P!nk does have quite a "I don't give a flying fuck" attitude...but her music style is pop.

This is when labels get muddy.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

Talking Heads was part of NYC '77, so I usually think of them as Punk, regardless.  Most of that punk style wouldn't be recognized as such, these days.  Hell, I heard tell some snot nosed poser claimed the Clash wasn't "really" punk a while back.  Too bad there wasn't much to send back to the family.

As much as I know you love P!nk, calling that punk doesn't really sit well with me -- although, the chances are good that Tim Armstrong (Operation Ivy, Rancid) helped write it, so you at least have only one degree of separation.

I don't think I've heard that Elton track, but that guy's been flipping off the Man for decades, so why the hell not.

1.  That's one of Elton John's "lost" works, though you can find it on Youtube.

2.  Inre:  The Clash thing.  I was in the dentist's office a number of years ago (2005 or so), and the bastard had MTV on the TV in the waiting room.  This would be horrible enough in itself, but there was the stupid fucking "shout out" video interruptions, and this airhead screams out something about Green Day "pioneering punk rock".  I wanted to go up a fucking water tower.

WHAT?!?! I'm surprised nobody's gone up the MTV rooftop with an assault rifle.   

BTW, I suspect there's a REASON people don't quite let themselves be fingered as punk post-1980. They learned to keep moving.

[Suu]

If somebody told me, in person, that Green Day "pioneered" anything, I would unleash an incredible amount of unholy wrath upon them.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

Well to be fair they pioneered green day carbon copies....

[Suu]

Which I wouldn't call their fault directly, other than existing. Though I owned my copy of "Dookie" just like every other kid in middle school.

I could not stand that "punk revival" shit that hit when I was in college. Thanks to them and Hot Topic, scene kids spawned, which then grew up into hipsters. My sister fell into that fucking trap. I'm so glad she outgrew it.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

Yeah- after i stopped listening to green day is when i started listening to older stuff. Radio started to irk me after that point.

[AFK]

But who exactly pioneered punk?

The Ramones?

[LMNO]

But who exactly pioneered punk?

The Ramones?

The sound, or the ethos?

The ethos has been around for a long time.  Prometheus was a punk.

The sound, I'd say Blue Cheer/MC5/The Stooges.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

But who exactly pioneered punk?

The Ramones?

The sound, or the ethos?

The ethos has been around for a long time.  Prometheus was a punk.

The sound, I'd say Blue Cheer/MC5/The Stooges.

Lord Buckley.

[AFK]

I dunno, probably more the sound though of course they weren't the only ones but you definitely hear a lot of Ramones-like riffing in some of the bands that followed.


And I really like the Ramones and just wanted to name-drop.

[Lenin McCarthy]

The ethos has been around for a long time.  Prometheus was a punk.

For non-mythological beings, Diogenes of Sinope was also very punk.

[Cuddlefish]

Beethoven was the first punk rocker.

Fuck The Clash (seriously, fuck them) and The Ramones (they get a little more leeway than The Clash though, they had downs syndrome).

Anyone that doesn't know anything about the Crass/Exploited rivalry needs some schoolin'.

As far as Greenday goes, I've seen them pwn entire festivals filled with so-called punk bands. Setting their gear on fire, escalating the crowds to a point that they broke down the fences. You know you're not punk when Greenday out-bad-asses you. But pioneered? I don't think so. Not punk, anyhow.

Punk rock is all about being pissed. Case for Beethoven:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6unwFFeNTjQ

[East Coast Hustle]

Musically speaking, the first punk rocker that comes to mind is Buddy Holly.

Attitudinally speaking, the first punk rocker that comes to mind is the biblical Eve.

[AFK]

At a certain point that definition seems to get a bit brittle.  You can do the same with Metal.  There is the obvious discussion of bands that SOUND metal, but then you can also talk about someone being metal.  For example some have described classical artists like Beehtoven, and especially Wagner, as being metal. 

So what's the difference between being (attitudinally) punk and metal? 

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Where's Dimo?  He can settle this shit.