Excuse me while I vomit.- Trigger Warning for Rape and Rape Culture.

[ñͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅé ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞]

I read this earlier today on Jezebel and have been stewing on it.

I don't know how I feel about it because I don't know if the rapists who are confessing these stories are more likely to contribute to the healing or continued harming of rape victims who choose to read them. I also don't know if the act of confessing via anonymous writing is more likely to rehabilitate or embolden rapists.

It's not hard to see why some people would dismiss this thread as a circle jerk of rape apologists, especially because some quality Redditors assured the storytellers that "it's not your fault." (This is Reddit, after all.) And certainly this isn't light reading for everyone. But I think it's a mistake to write it off. Charlotte Shane put it well in a recent essay for The New Inquiry on moving past rape by being able to talk about it in non-victimizing terms:

    ...our culture is unable to address rape with the sobriety and clarity the topic deserves because we are still unable to address sex with the sobriety and clarity it deserves. The contention that rape should be regarded as an asexual act has done nothing to remedy this. Nor will it. As activist and writer Wendy McElroy points out, "there can be as many motives for rape as there are for murder and other violent crimes ... Rape is every bit as complex." Insisting that no rape is ever "about" sex but is rather about an individual man acting on a patriarchal mandate to sow terror by exercising "power" does a disservice to us all.

    This sorry state of affairs should foster honest conversation, not suppress it. We should not be so desperate to establish the seriousness of rape that we stigmatize intelligent discussion of it.

(Emphasis ours.)

"Let me leave you with this message, you never know who someone truly is, so be careful," said one man who posted a particularly disturbing account of how he used to repeatedly rape women. "I'm going back to my main account to do normal reddit looking at cats and posting pictures of bacon, and I think it's kind of funny that no one will ever know if the person they're talking to on reddit, or someone who moderates their subreddit, is me on my main account... just food for thought."

He's right — not about the "be careful" victim-blaming, but about his multifaceted identity. We have to acknowledge that the people telling these stories and making these decisions are the men (and women) next door, not necessarily inhuman savages. Otherwise, anti-rape campaigns will continue to tell victims to dress and act differently as a matter of "prevention," college campuses will continue to report high rates of sexual assault, and people will continue to take advantage of others without even looking them in the eye while doing so.

It also seems just as likely that this one man, quoted above, is actually a troll, either by a sociopath for thrills or by a government agency to nab sociopaths. Perhaps the origin of the story doesn't matter (especially if they cannot be traced to a Media Access Control address) if it serves to provoke sincere exchanges between rape apologists, feminists, fence-sitters, men's rights activists, and so on. And as an outsider to the Reddit community, I can't tell which participants may be counter-trolls as well.



Maybe I'm just sleep-deprived....

[Pope Pixie Pickle]

Do you disagree with the article or mainly the idea that the Reddit thread offers sympathy to rapists?

Eta: or any of the other rage-inducing parts of this situation, because that sounded like I thought there were only two.

well, Paes. I agree with the main article, about listening to people, as Nigel pointed out, Reddit was overly sympathetic to the whole thing, mind. 

Agreed it was a good article, but also a disgusting one. I had to watch a movie in between to finish it. I read a few of the stories as well, and they truly do range from drunken retardation to power trips, to some serious reality disassociation. Some caught themselves about halfway through and were like, "Oh shit this is wrong!" and others were "Hell yeah TAKE THAT BITCH". The scariest part of it is that at the end of the article the man speaking explained that you'd never know it was him. He's simply your neighbor, and goes into the Fun Loving Criminals category. He's going to post about bacon and cats and you're none the wiser. It's hard to see any decency in what you call "The Human Race." Though I do imagine even after all of that, there is worse, i.e. someone who fanatically reads them to live out a fantasy.

Yea, the OP in the Reddit thread made me so mad. The responses weren't any better in some cases.

That was a really good article, and I felt it made some good headway into explaining why demonizing and dehumanizing rapists only serves to perpetuate rape culture, much the same way that demonizing and dehumanizing women does. It's only when men and women can meet and relate as fellow human beings that rape stops. We victimize those we can't relate to.

Society as a whole needs a healthier attitude towards sex in general, not just rape.  I know people who are actually confused as to what constitutes proper consent, yet the guy I know just blamed feminists for "moving the goalposts", in a massive kneejerk reaction, in his case, the girl who felt wronged by him and him were both almost too drunk to stand, and he stopped halfway through because it felt wrong. He had no ill intentions, but ill intentions is not the sole cause of this kind of crap.  I am so pissed off that he placed the blame elsewhere, rather than "how can I do things differently so that I don't hurt someone again".

Sex education needs to be turned up to 11, and include discussions on what is abusive, from emotional abuse, violence within a relationship, to sexually damaging behaviours. We need to start early, because I know I mentioned teens in the OP, but kids are exposed to abuse too, but I am at a loss as to how these things should work for younger kids.  That IS the only way I can see of tackling rape culture so it has any meaningful effect.

[Pope Pixie Pickle]

I read this earlier today on Jezebel and have been stewing on it.

I don't know how I feel about it because I don't know if the rapists who are confessing these stories are more likely to contribute to the healing or continued harming of rape victims who choose to read them. I also don't know if the act of confessing via anonymous writing is more likely to rehabilitate or embolden rapists.

It's not hard to see why some people would dismiss this thread as a circle jerk of rape apologists, especially because some quality Redditors assured the storytellers that "it's not your fault." (This is Reddit, after all.) And certainly this isn't light reading for everyone. But I think it's a mistake to write it off. Charlotte Shane put it well in a recent essay for The New Inquiry on moving past rape by being able to talk about it in non-victimizing terms:

    ...our culture is unable to address rape with the sobriety and clarity the topic deserves because we are still unable to address sex with the sobriety and clarity it deserves. The contention that rape should be regarded as an asexual act has done nothing to remedy this. Nor will it. As activist and writer Wendy McElroy points out, "there can be as many motives for rape as there are for murder and other violent crimes ... Rape is every bit as complex." Insisting that no rape is ever "about" sex but is rather about an individual man acting on a patriarchal mandate to sow terror by exercising "power" does a disservice to us all.

    This sorry state of affairs should foster honest conversation, not suppress it. We should not be so desperate to establish the seriousness of rape that we stigmatize intelligent discussion of it.

(Emphasis ours.)

"Let me leave you with this message, you never know who someone truly is, so be careful," said one man who posted a particularly disturbing account of how he used to repeatedly rape women. "I'm going back to my main account to do normal reddit looking at cats and posting pictures of bacon, and I think it's kind of funny that no one will ever know if the person they're talking to on reddit, or someone who moderates their subreddit, is me on my main account... just food for thought."

He's right — not about the "be careful" victim-blaming, but about his multifaceted identity. We have to acknowledge that the people telling these stories and making these decisions are the men (and women) next door, not necessarily inhuman savages. Otherwise, anti-rape campaigns will continue to tell victims to dress and act differently as a matter of "prevention," college campuses will continue to report high rates of sexual assault, and people will continue to take advantage of others without even looking them in the eye while doing so.

It also seems just as likely that this one man, quoted above, is actually a troll, either by a sociopath for thrills or by a government agency to nab sociopaths. Perhaps the origin of the story doesn't matter (especially if they cannot be traced to a Media Access Control address) if it serves to provoke sincere exchanges between rape apologists, feminists, fence-sitters, men's rights activists, and so on. And as an outsider to the Reddit community, I can't tell which participants may be counter-trolls as well.



Maybe I'm just sleep-deprived....

I considered the possibility that it was a troll.

Then I read this. http://www.shakesville.com/2012/07/what-does-serial-rapist-sound-like.html
and the pattern seemed too real.

[Faust]

Pet hate: I have a trigger for trigger warnings. We're all adults and can discuss unpleasant topics without having you have our hands held.

[Pope Pixie Pickle]

Pet hate: I have a trigger for trigger warnings. We're all adults and can discuss unpleasant topics without having you have our hands held.

Murmur had flashbacks, dude. Sorry if my wanting to prevent someone from having an actual emotional trauma from the thread annoys you.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Pet hate: I have a trigger for trigger warnings. We're all adults and can discuss unpleasant topics without having you have our hands held.

Translation: I am a sheltered git who has never had to deal with actual trauma, let alone PTSD, and I have no idea what any of it really means so it bugs me.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Seriously, what a completely fucktarded thing to say. Now I'm pissed off.


"I have a trigger for trigger warnings"
         \



Seriously, if trigger warnings give you flashbacks, make you nauseous, cause you to shake and sweat while a combination of adrenaline and paralysis pins you down and either results in complete immobility and crushing depression, or in lashing out at those around you and going on a self destructive rampage, you truly have a unique trauma and should probably join those of us who have trauma-related triggers in enjoying years of therapy to try to get to a place where you can safely cope with triggering subjects.

Otherwise, FUCK OFF. And if you're offended by this and can't be fucked to rethink your moronic position, well aren't you a special little snowflake like every other special little fucking frat brat.

[Faust]

As a victim of childhood sexual abuse who can still talk about rape without insulting things like trigger warnings I find your comments moronic and offensive.

[Faust]

Or to use your stock response: I'm sorry of isn't nice enoug for your delicate sensibilities.

[Faust]

Pet hate: I have a trigger for trigger warnings. We're all adults and can discuss unpleasant topics without having you have our hands held.

Murmur had flashbacks, dude. Sorry if my wanting to prevent someone from having an actual emotional trauma from the thread annoys you.

Anyway, sorry pixie.
It's a topic that needs to be talked about open and without reservation. I understand if murmur doesn't wish to interact and that it is difficult but I find the trigger thing that has cropped up on the net very belittling of the issue.

[tyrannosaurus vex]

I kind of cringe a a little at the idea of trigger warnings in general just because I know the human tendency to take everything and run way too far with it. Given the pathetic state of civil dialogue in general, the last thing we need is to develop yet another way to help people avoid uncomfortable discussions. Having uncomfortable discussions is about the absolute minimum we owe to the rest of society if we say we're interested at all in solving big problems and not just distracting ourselves with frivolity all the time.

I don't think it's necessary to post a big "trigger warning" at the top of a thread just because an article linked from it shows people being horrible about a topic like rape. The OP can outline the situation and anyone who has too much trouble with it is free to click the other way.

[ñͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅé ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞]

Having uncomfortable discussions is about the absolute minimum we owe to the rest of society if we say we're interested at all in solving big problems and not just distracting ourselves with frivolity all the time.

People who have been through sexual trauma owe it to society to re-traumatize themselves by subjecting themselves to content they are not ready to read?

Yes, that sounds like very non-counterproductive "big problem" solving.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Pet hate: I have a trigger for trigger warnings. We're all adults and can discuss unpleasant topics without having you have our hands held.

WTF was that?

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Okay...Some people find certain topics extremely uncomfortable.  Some people worry that their topic may make people uncomfortable.  They then have the common decency to warn people in the title that the subject may be so.  The fact that they do shows that they give a fuck about the people around them, and that is what should be considered, not "I've seen that before".

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I don't think it's necessary to post a big "trigger warning" at the top of a thread just because an article linked from it shows people being horrible about a topic like rape. The OP can outline the situation and anyone who has too much trouble with it is free to click the other way.

Or the title can.  And did.

In any case, way to go.  Pixie's thread has been effectively trashed.

Pixie, would you like a thread split?