Sex Ed, PD style

[The Dark Monk]

OP: What I believe sex ed should have in it:

What happens when things go in places, IE risks, care, and the general end result. Which includes: mouths, butts, vaginas, fingers, feet, tongues, and in one odd experience, armpits. Anything you can think of included in here.

Disease control, how to lower it all and prevent it from happening. Disease effects as well.

Pregnancy and it's effects, short and long term (meaning the 9 months and afterwards)

Consent and care, which in itself, means "Yes you can." Also - "This is the g-spot, the clit, the bundle of nerves at the end of the penis, prostate" etc. A little anatomy.

A small psychological talk about the feelings of others. Sex doesn't include just one person unless you have toys or a REALLY long penis in which to sex yourself from behind. Though in that case too, masturbation not being shameful or evil also included.

This all in all covering everything can, I believe, educate in a general manner and covers all genders and sexualities.

[SmogofCogs]

We live in a heterosexist society (which is to say that only heterosexual relationships are considered natural and normal), so I would actually support discussing the queer community.
Also trans* people are not a sexuality, since it's about sex and gender and various ways people are not cis (man born in a male body, woman born in a female body), which is worth mentioning I think (because, horray, cissexism).


I think your privilege may be showing (although I'm glad you realized that that was a possibility! You are definitely looking like a biped). Cis men are 100% welcome in feminism (as allies, since you are not and never have been actually one of us), so far as most feminists are concerned, but women/females need a movement of their own for the same reason queers, POC, etc. do. We're not the dominant paradigm and need a movement in order to do the work.
Also, not our problem if men can't get behind the term 'feminism'.

yeah. i guess it would be silly to call it anything other than feminism. maybe i'm just wishing that there was a decent men's movement for men to get behind that wasn't so anti-women? i like being an ally though. it's a hat i wear, although i don't belong to any formal groups. really made me identify with being a white hetero cis-male (instead of assuming i'm the default or something) for the first time and start trying to accept all the bullshit that comes with that.

There is one, it's called "feminism".

really?

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I think that good basic sex ed should essentially be an owner's manual.

This is your body. You only get one. This is what it does. Here is basic maintenance, and some maintenance resources. Your body can do some neat stuff with other people's bodies; here are some scenarios, and how you may choose to negotiate them. YMMV. Remember, everybody only gets one. Hopefully this handy guide has been helpful for you; if you have  questions, here are some more resources.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

We live in a heterosexist society (which is to say that only heterosexual relationships are considered natural and normal), so I would actually support discussing the queer community.
Also trans* people are not a sexuality, since it's about sex and gender and various ways people are not cis (man born in a male body, woman born in a female body), which is worth mentioning I think (because, horray, cissexism).


I think your privilege may be showing (although I'm glad you realized that that was a possibility! You are definitely looking like a biped). Cis men are 100% welcome in feminism (as allies, since you are not and never have been actually one of us), so far as most feminists are concerned, but women/females need a movement of their own for the same reason queers, POC, etc. do. We're not the dominant paradigm and need a movement in order to do the work.
Also, not our problem if men can't get behind the term 'feminism'.

yeah. i guess it would be silly to call it anything other than feminism. maybe i'm just wishing that there was a decent men's movement for men to get behind that wasn't so anti-women? i like being an ally though. it's a hat i wear, although i don't belong to any formal groups. really made me identify with being a white hetero cis-male (instead of assuming i'm the default or something) for the first time and start trying to accept all the bullshit that comes with that.

There is one, it's called "feminism".

really?

I guess it depends on what you want the movement for. Is it for equality? Egalitarianism? The rights of men to be on level footing with women, to show their emotions, to be nurturing, and to be loving and engaged fathers, partners, and sons? That one's called "feminism".

If you're looking for one that reinforces men's position of privilege in Western society, I think that one's called "The Tea Party".

I'm not sure what you're going for, here, but your lament kind of reminds me of the lament that there's no such channel as White Entertainment Television. There is; it's called "all of the rest of them."

Males, particularly white males, already have the biggest, most solid support group there is, and it's called "society".

[BabylonHoruv]

I think that sex ed and feminism are (or at least should be) two very closely related subjects. If the concept of respecting women as people and respecting peoples' boundaries was part of a sex-ed curriculum it would do a whole lot of good to counter the rape culture. Trying to teach over already-ingrained programming is never as effective as instilling that teaching as the default programming from a young age.

Issues of consent can be taught at a very young age without getting into sex at all.  If another kid doesn't want to play don't push, absence of yes means no, whether it's kickball or felching.

Conservative parents are going to backlash about young kids being taught about sex, including many who would be supportive or at least quiet about sex ed for high school kids, they aren't going to get upset about kids being taught that consent is important in all activities, or being taught that boys and girls are both people and worthy of equal respect.

[East Coast Hustle]

Please stop posting in any and all sex-related topics. You make everybody else want to stay out of threads you post in. This would go a long way towards alleviating my desire to make a special case out of you.

[Pope Pixie Pickle]

We live in a heterosexist society (which is to say that only heterosexual relationships are considered natural and normal), so I would actually support discussing the queer community.
Also trans* people are not a sexuality, since it's about sex and gender and various ways people are not cis (man born in a male body, woman born in a female body), which is worth mentioning I think (because, horray, cissexism).


I think your privilege may be showing (although I'm glad you realized that that was a possibility! You are definitely looking like a biped). Cis men are 100% welcome in feminism (as allies, since you are not and never have been actually one of us), so far as most feminists are concerned, but women/females need a movement of their own for the same reason queers, POC, etc. do. We're not the dominant paradigm and need a movement in order to do the work.
Also, not our problem if men can't get behind the term 'feminism'.

yeah. i guess it would be silly to call it anything other than feminism. maybe i'm just wishing that there was a decent men's movement for men to get behind that wasn't so anti-women? i like being an ally though. it's a hat i wear, although i don't belong to any formal groups. really made me identify with being a white hetero cis-male (instead of assuming i'm the default or something) for the first time and start trying to accept all the bullshit that comes with that.

There is one, it's called "feminism".

really?

I guess it depends on what you want the movement for. Is it for equality? Egalitarianism? The rights of men to be on level footing with women, to show their emotions, to be nurturing, and to be loving and engaged fathers, partners, and sons? That one's called "feminism".

If you're looking for one that reinforces men's position of privilege in Western society, I think that one's called "The Tea Party".

I'm not sure what you're going for, here, but your lament kind of reminds me of the lament that there's no such channel as White Entertainment Television. There is; it's called "all of the rest of them."

Males, particularly white males, already have the biggest, most solid support group there is, and it's called "society".

I always felt that in a heteronormative homosocial society that consent education for guys could be done brilliantly by men allied to the feminist movement, and might have more chance of getting through to young men, maybe combining it with sports teams and mentorship. There's an organisation called A Call To All Men that does a similar thing , and the founder did an awesome TED talk.

[SmogofCogs]

We live in a heterosexist society (which is to say that only heterosexual relationships are considered natural and normal), so I would actually support discussing the queer community.
Also trans* people are not a sexuality, since it's about sex and gender and various ways people are not cis (man born in a male body, woman born in a female body), which is worth mentioning I think (because, horray, cissexism).


I think your privilege may be showing (although I'm glad you realized that that was a possibility! You are definitely looking like a biped). Cis men are 100% welcome in feminism (as allies, since you are not and never have been actually one of us), so far as most feminists are concerned, but women/females need a movement of their own for the same reason queers, POC, etc. do. We're not the dominant paradigm and need a movement in order to do the work.
Also, not our problem if men can't get behind the term 'feminism'.

yeah. i guess it would be silly to call it anything other than feminism. maybe i'm just wishing that there was a decent men's movement for men to get behind that wasn't so anti-women? i like being an ally though. it's a hat i wear, although i don't belong to any formal groups. really made me identify with being a white hetero cis-male (instead of assuming i'm the default or something) for the first time and start trying to accept all the bullshit that comes with that.

There is one, it's called "feminism".

really?

I guess it depends on what you want the movement for. Is it for equality? Egalitarianism? The rights of men to be on level footing with women, to show their emotions, to be nurturing, and to be loving and engaged fathers, partners, and sons? That one's called "feminism".

If you're looking for one that reinforces men's position of privilege in Western society, I think that one's called "The Tea Party".

I'm not sure what you're going for, here, but your lament kind of reminds me of the lament that there's no such channel as White Entertainment Television. There is; it's called "all of the rest of them."

Males, particularly white males, already have the biggest, most solid support group there is, and it's called "society".

i don't feel like i'm lamenting. just pondering.

i'm looking for the former description. can't men be organizing separately from women on these issues? in constant communication with the feminist movement, but separately? it'd seem like a positive experience to have a male movement that espoused the values of feminism, but focused on helping men make that a reality. shouldn't it be our job to teach ourselves about rape culture? to have other men who understand what it's like to be defensive and angry explain to young men what sexism really is? or are men not capable of doing so without having their privilege run amok?

i guess i'm wondering why it can't also be male-positive. i understand that society is already defaulted to males, but why can't males who are trying to overcome this shit create a positive identity for themselves separate from the one society has placed upon them?

[Placid Dingo]

We live in a heterosexist society (which is to say that only heterosexual relationships are considered natural and normal), so I would actually support discussing the queer community.
Also trans* people are not a sexuality, since it's about sex and gender and various ways people are not cis (man born in a male body, woman born in a female body), which is worth mentioning I think (because, horray, cissexism).


I think your privilege may be showing (although I'm glad you realized that that was a possibility! You are definitely looking like a biped). Cis men are 100% welcome in feminism (as allies, since you are not and never have been actually one of us), so far as most feminists are concerned, but women/females need a movement of their own for the same reason queers, POC, etc. do. We're not the dominant paradigm and need a movement in order to do the work.
Also, not our problem if men can't get behind the term 'feminism'.

yeah. i guess it would be silly to call it anything other than feminism. maybe i'm just wishing that there was a decent men's movement for men to get behind that wasn't so anti-women? i like being an ally though. it's a hat i wear, although i don't belong to any formal groups. really made me identify with being a white hetero cis-male (instead of assuming i'm the default or something) for the first time and start trying to accept all the bullshit that comes with that.

There is one, it's called "feminism".

really?

I guess it depends on what you want the movement for. Is it for equality? Egalitarianism? The rights of men to be on level footing with women, to show their emotions, to be nurturing, and to be loving and engaged fathers, partners, and sons? That one's called "feminism".

If you're looking for one that reinforces men's position of privilege in Western society, I think that one's called "The Tea Party".

I'm not sure what you're going for, here, but your lament kind of reminds me of the lament that there's no such channel as White Entertainment Television. There is; it's called "all of the rest of them."

Males, particularly white males, already have the biggest, most solid support group there is, and it's called "society".

I always felt that in a heteronormative homosocial society that consent education for guys could be done brilliantly by men allied to the feminist movement, and might have more chance of getting through to young men, maybe combining it with sports teams and mentorship. There's an organisation called A Call To All Men that does a similar thing , and the founder did an awesome TED talk.

I think I've seen that and it was brilliant.

Most men don't know intuitively that feminism is about equality not just women's rights, or just how well a variety of gender issues are represented by feminism. I used to have a bit of an interest in the men's rights stuff but having a solid understanding of feminism renders it pretty surpurfluous.

[Placid Dingo]

We live in a heterosexist society (which is to say that only heterosexual relationships are considered natural and normal), so I would actually support discussing the queer community.
Also trans* people are not a sexuality, since it's about sex and gender and various ways people are not cis (man born in a male body, woman born in a female body), which is worth mentioning I think (because, horray, cissexism).


I think your privilege may be showing (although I'm glad you realized that that was a possibility! You are definitely looking like a biped). Cis men are 100% welcome in feminism (as allies, since you are not and never have been actually one of us), so far as most feminists are concerned, but women/females need a movement of their own for the same reason queers, POC, etc. do. We're not the dominant paradigm and need a movement in order to do the work.
Also, not our problem if men can't get behind the term 'feminism'.

yeah. i guess it would be silly to call it anything other than feminism. maybe i'm just wishing that there was a decent men's movement for men to get behind that wasn't so anti-women? i like being an ally though. it's a hat i wear, although i don't belong to any formal groups. really made me identify with being a white hetero cis-male (instead of assuming i'm the default or something) for the first time and start trying to accept all the bullshit that comes with that.

There is one, it's called "feminism".

really?

I guess it depends on what you want the movement for. Is it for equality? Egalitarianism? The rights of men to be on level footing with women, to show their emotions, to be nurturing, and to be loving and engaged fathers, partners, and sons? That one's called "feminism".

If you're looking for one that reinforces men's position of privilege in Western society, I think that one's called "The Tea Party".

I'm not sure what you're going for, here, but your lament kind of reminds me of the lament that there's no such channel as White Entertainment Television. There is; it's called "all of the rest of them."

Males, particularly white males, already have the biggest, most solid support group there is, and it's called "society".

i don't feel like i'm lamenting. just pondering.

i'm looking for the former description. can't men be organizing separately from women on these issues? in constant communication with the feminist movement, but separately? it'd seem like a positive experience to have a male movement that espoused the values of feminism, but focused on helping men make that a reality. shouldn't it be our job to teach ourselves about rape culture? to have other men who understand what it's like to be defensive and angry explain to young men what sexism really is? or are men not capable of doing so without having their privilege run amok?

i guess i'm wondering why it can't also be male-positive. i understand that society is already defaulted to males, but why can't males who are trying to overcome this shit create a positive identity for themselves separate from the one society has placed upon them?

Smoke, I've asked all the same questions. In the end, all those ideas are genuinely represented by feminism which IS a male positive ideology.

[Juana]

We live in a heterosexist society (which is to say that only heterosexual relationships are considered natural and normal), so I would actually support discussing the queer community.
Also trans* people are not a sexuality, since it's about sex and gender and various ways people are not cis (man born in a male body, woman born in a female body), which is worth mentioning I think (because, horray, cissexism).


I think your privilege may be showing (although I'm glad you realized that that was a possibility! You are definitely looking like a biped). Cis men are 100% welcome in feminism (as allies, since you are not and never have been actually one of us), so far as most feminists are concerned, but women/females need a movement of their own for the same reason queers, POC, etc. do. We're not the dominant paradigm and need a movement in order to do the work.
Also, not our problem if men can't get behind the term 'feminism'.

yeah. i guess it would be silly to call it anything other than feminism. maybe i'm just wishing that there was a decent men's movement for men to get behind that wasn't so anti-women? i like being an ally though. it's a hat i wear, although i don't belong to any formal groups. really made me identify with being a white hetero cis-male (instead of assuming i'm the default or something) for the first time and start trying to accept all the bullshit that comes with that.

There is one, it's called "feminism".

really?

I guess it depends on what you want the movement for. Is it for equality? Egalitarianism? The rights of men to be on level footing with women, to show their emotions, to be nurturing, and to be loving and engaged fathers, partners, and sons? That one's called "feminism".

If you're looking for one that reinforces men's position of privilege in Western society, I think that one's called "The Tea Party".

I'm not sure what you're going for, here, but your lament kind of reminds me of the lament that there's no such channel as White Entertainment Television. There is; it's called "all of the rest of them."

Males, particularly white males, already have the biggest, most solid support group there is, and it's called "society".

i don't feel like i'm lamenting. just pondering.

i'm looking for the former description. can't men be organizing separately from women on these issues? in constant communication with the feminist movement, but separately? it'd seem like a positive experience to have a male movement that espoused the values of feminism, but focused on helping men make that a reality. shouldn't it be our job to teach ourselves about rape culture? to have other men who understand what it's like to be defensive and angry explain to young men what sexism really is? or are men not capable of doing so without having their privilege run amok?

i guess i'm wondering why it can't also be male-positive. i understand that society is already defaulted to males, but why can't males who are trying to overcome this shit create a positive identity for themselves separate from the one society has placed upon them?

It *is* male positive. Feminism is not about punishing someone for their gender or sex or both. And why would you want a separate group to work with feminists, except to feel special about being a decent human being? (this is, btw, an instance of your privilege showing, imo)
Yes, it is your job to teach yourself about rape culture but you can do that working as part of the feminist movement (and yes, you can talk to other cis dudes about feminism and fight back against sexism without your privilege showing)

[Salty]

Eh, this is sort of what I mean by the reaction some men have to the word.
It's a simple matter of it sounding, well, FEMinine. I can see why Smog and other would take it that way.

I feel time that is spent explaining, "Oh know, you see, while it SOUNDS like it's for women, it's for everyone." could be better put to use with more relevant issues. Then again, maybe it's a good hurdle for people to cross, and perhaps it brings about important arguments all on its own.

But I wouldn't go around being surprised when you have to explain it constantly. Personally, I hate doing that, repeating myself.

[Placid Dingo]

Garbo: whats cis? And is asexuality an orientation in the traditional sense? Or just a general disinterest in sex.

Agree that for the propose of curriculum, just taking on sexuality as a catch all term is good.

The feminism discussion is interesting but beyond ' each partners needs matter' not so relevant to sex ed. I know I was on that particular derailment too.

The hygine stuff is great, I never considered it. Also Pixies lesbian safe sex stuff (though really most of the bits involved are probably still relevant to a hetero relationship.)

[SmogofCogs]

We live in a heterosexist society (which is to say that only heterosexual relationships are considered natural and normal), so I would actually support discussing the queer community.
Also trans* people are not a sexuality, since it's about sex and gender and various ways people are not cis (man born in a male body, woman born in a female body), which is worth mentioning I think (because, horray, cissexism).


I think your privilege may be showing (although I'm glad you realized that that was a possibility! You are definitely looking like a biped). Cis men are 100% welcome in feminism (as allies, since you are not and never have been actually one of us), so far as most feminists are concerned, but women/females need a movement of their own for the same reason queers, POC, etc. do. We're not the dominant paradigm and need a movement in order to do the work.
Also, not our problem if men can't get behind the term 'feminism'.

yeah. i guess it would be silly to call it anything other than feminism. maybe i'm just wishing that there was a decent men's movement for men to get behind that wasn't so anti-women? i like being an ally though. it's a hat i wear, although i don't belong to any formal groups. really made me identify with being a white hetero cis-male (instead of assuming i'm the default or something) for the first time and start trying to accept all the bullshit that comes with that.

There is one, it's called "feminism".

really?

I guess it depends on what you want the movement for. Is it for equality? Egalitarianism? The rights of men to be on level footing with women, to show their emotions, to be nurturing, and to be loving and engaged fathers, partners, and sons? That one's called "feminism".

If you're looking for one that reinforces men's position of privilege in Western society, I think that one's called "The Tea Party".

I'm not sure what you're going for, here, but your lament kind of reminds me of the lament that there's no such channel as White Entertainment Television. There is; it's called "all of the rest of them."

Males, particularly white males, already have the biggest, most solid support group there is, and it's called "society".

i don't feel like i'm lamenting. just pondering.

i'm looking for the former description. can't men be organizing separately from women on these issues? in constant communication with the feminist movement, but separately? it'd seem like a positive experience to have a male movement that espoused the values of feminism, but focused on helping men make that a reality. shouldn't it be our job to teach ourselves about rape culture? to have other men who understand what it's like to be defensive and angry explain to young men what sexism really is? or are men not capable of doing so without having their privilege run amok?

i guess i'm wondering why it can't also be male-positive. i understand that society is already defaulted to males, but why can't males who are trying to overcome this shit create a positive identity for themselves separate from the one society has placed upon them?

It *is* male positive. Feminism is not about punishing someone for their gender or sex or both. And why would you want a separate group to work with feminists, except to feel special about being a decent human being? (this is, btw, an instance of your privilege showing, imo)
Yes, it is your job to teach yourself about rape culture but you can do that working as part of the feminist movement (and yes, you can talk to other cis dudes about feminism and fight back against sexism without your privilege showing)

can you explain the bit about feeling special about being a decent human being? i feel like i just want a separate identity here. i'm only allowed in the feminist movement as an ally. the rest of society while granting me immense amounts of privilege isn't down with the identity i want to create. can't i just be part of a group of similar people so we can all say 'i know that feel bro' to each other? i guess i just don't understand why if feminism is both female and male positive, and there's no other space needed to discuss these topics, that it has to be named after females and i can only be an ally? maybe i'm feeling defensive that i'm losing the spotlight or something, but i think having to find my male identity in a movement named after a different identity bothers me.

[SmogofCogs]

yeah and i see that i'm derailing the sex-ed stuff here. apologies. but this is helpful to me if that means anything to anyone.