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Patriarchy and how it hurts men

Started by BabylonHoruv, August 06, 2012, 05:12:38 PM

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BabylonHoruv

So in the sex Ed thread Cain posted this.

Quote
One of the most interesting areas of feminist thinking, to me, is how patriarchical societies constrain men as well as they do women, and I strongly suspect if there was a greater focus on this, it would get a lot of guys who might otherwise be not so interested in feminism thinking about how such things impact on them personally.

This is something that I think deserves its own thread.  I remember seeing some discussion of it in another thread and every time someone came up with a way that they felt men were constrained by society it was shot down as a myth.  This is absolutely not to deny the existence of male privilege, it is to examine the ways in which our current sexist society keeps men down, to open feminism up so  that it is easier to see that it is not just a movement for women.

One that I have noticed is the divide as far as being the breadwinner versus being the caretaker in a household.  Men are expected to be the breadwinner, women the caretaker, if the woman is the sole wage earner and her husband stays home to take care of the kids and house people view them both as aberrant and not ok.  This is not really an issue for the working class, usually, since both parents generally have to work just to keep the household afloat. 
You're a special case, Babylon.  You are offensive even when you don't post.

Merely by being alive, you make everyone just a little more miserable

-Dok Howl

The Johnny


I think rather than framing this within privilege theory ("keeping men down") it is more proper to frame it within gender-role stereotypes ideas.

Because in the context of a patriarchy, women ultimately lose more than men. Men might be excluded from some jobs, but that is just gender-role coming into play and that is by a great margin the least of  harms.


<<My image in some places, is of a monster of some kind who wants to pull a string and manipulate people. Nothing could be further from the truth. People are manipulated; I just want them to be manipulated more effectively.>>

-B.F. Skinner

Salty

Quote from: Joh'Nyx on August 06, 2012, 11:01:02 PM

I think rather than framing this within privilege theory ("keeping men down") it is more proper to frame it within gender-role stereotypes ideas.

Because in the context of a patriarchy, women ultimately lose more than men. Men might be excluded from some jobs, but that is just gender-role coming into play and that is by a great margin the least of  harms.




Even MOAR surprising is sometimes Babs here likes to take a popular topic that people wantto talk about because he knows that people are pissed off about his mere existence, let alone him talking about things that are interesting. The surprising part is someone always responds.
The world is a car and you're the crash test dummy.

The Johnny

<<My image in some places, is of a monster of some kind who wants to pull a string and manipulate people. Nothing could be further from the truth. People are manipulated; I just want them to be manipulated more effectively.>>

-B.F. Skinner

Salty

Quote from: Joh'Nyx on August 07, 2012, 01:05:56 AM

And here you are, too.

Well, that's because I like you, Joh'Nyx, and I wouldn't want you to be all alone.
The world is a car and you're the crash test dummy.

The Dark Monk

I'm always here to keep company as well ^.^
I thought this is all there is,
but now I know you are so much more.
I want to upgrade from my simple eight bits,
but will you still love me when I'm sixty-four?
~MIAB~

The Johnny

Quote from: Just Alty, Actually. on August 07, 2012, 01:15:24 AM
Quote from: Joh'Nyx on August 07, 2012, 01:05:56 AM

And here you are, too.

Well, that's because I like you, Joh'Nyx, and I wouldn't want you to be all alone.

I like you too, and i like being liked  :fnord:
<<My image in some places, is of a monster of some kind who wants to pull a string and manipulate people. Nothing could be further from the truth. People are manipulated; I just want them to be manipulated more effectively.>>

-B.F. Skinner

Salty

Aww, this thread has a happy ending after all.
The world is a car and you're the crash test dummy.

East Coast Hustle

Jesus fucking christ, you guys.

Allow me to remind you that by posting ITT, you are essentially consenting to be part of BH's disgusting fantasy life. And it's not like it's a subject that doesn't already have an active and recent thread. Fuck.
Rabid Colostomy Hole Jammer of the Coming Apocalypse™

The Devil is in the details; God is in the nuance.


Some yahoo yelled at me, saying 'GIVE ME LIBERTY OR GIVE ME DEATH', and I thought, "I'm feeling generous today.  Why not BOTH?"

Salty

Uh, yeah, that was kind of the theme of all posts following the first two.

:lulz:
The world is a car and you're the crash test dummy.

East Coast Hustle

I just noticed that you posted the phrase "happy ending" ITT.

You're a terrible terrible person, Alty.
Rabid Colostomy Hole Jammer of the Coming Apocalypse™

The Devil is in the details; God is in the nuance.


Some yahoo yelled at me, saying 'GIVE ME LIBERTY OR GIVE ME DEATH', and I thought, "I'm feeling generous today.  Why not BOTH?"

The Johnny

I know hes been a dick to some people, but havent we all?

Why do you guys want to shun him? (other than his fantasies)

I really want to know, because in comparision as far as ive seen Yatto was/is way worse and doesnt get that much shit.
<<My image in some places, is of a monster of some kind who wants to pull a string and manipulate people. Nothing could be further from the truth. People are manipulated; I just want them to be manipulated more effectively.>>

-B.F. Skinner

Salty

Quote from: Echo Chamber Music on August 07, 2012, 01:41:27 AM
I just noticed that you posted the phrase "happy ending" ITT.

You're a terrible terrible person, Alty.

:thisguy:
The world is a car and you're the crash test dummy.

East Coast Hustle

Quote from: Joh'Nyx on August 07, 2012, 01:41:48 AM
I know hes been a dick to some people, but havent we all?

Why do you guys want to shun him? (other than his fantasies)

I really want to know, because in comparision as far as ive seen Yatto was/is way worse and doesnt get that much shit.

He's openly admitted that he gets his kicks from receiving negative attention, including (and seemingly especially) at PD. AFAIC, his murderporn fantasies are reason enough (sure, he's entitled to them as long as he doesn't act on them but it doesn't mean I have to treat him like a real human being) but the fact that he's using posters at PD to facilitate some sort of kink is pretty squicky. Squicky enough that I struggle with the issue of whether or not it would justify banning him on the grounds that he's exploiting posters here for his own sexual gratification without their consent. I mean, that's REALLY fucked up. And it's not like he adds anything valuable to the dialogue.
Rabid Colostomy Hole Jammer of the Coming Apocalypse™

The Devil is in the details; God is in the nuance.


Some yahoo yelled at me, saying 'GIVE ME LIBERTY OR GIVE ME DEATH', and I thought, "I'm feeling generous today.  Why not BOTH?"

Salty

He also, in an effort to defend his stupid fucking friend, and lash out, accused Freeky of making excuses for pedophiles, among a litany of unbearable qualities others could mention. I admit I am somewhat biased because Freeky is a really good friend.
The world is a car and you're the crash test dummy.