Oh Noez! What about Teh Menz? -Patriarchy isn't a dude's friend EITHER!

[Pæs]

"I am just trying to be a better person."

I actually read this as genuine at first. My bad.
And then Roger was a successful troll.

Then Roger didn't take you seriously when you went off the fucking deep end.

Or words to that effect.

Well, I'm off to bed, to dream up more ways to keep a brother down.  Paes, be prepared to be consumed with Holy Wrath^TM at my outrageous acts of oppression on this very board, come tomorrow.  That way, you won't even notice when the people who are actually oppressing you come down on you like a ten ton sack of pigshit.

Way to go.

Yeah, go with the "everyone calls me the villain" act. If anyone has bought into into of the strawmen you've been dissecting, they might assume that's a reasonable script for you to start reading from.

I don't think you're an evil oppressor and I'm not particularly upset, so nobody is going to get all CU on you. I'm just working through whether I have enough new information to dramatically revise my previously high opinion on you or whether you only seem to be an asshole because I'm limiting myself to this thread, in which I think you're an asshole.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

"I am just trying to be a better person."

I actually read this as genuine at first. My bad.
And then Roger was a successful troll.

Then Roger didn't take you seriously when you went off the fucking deep end.

Or words to that effect.

Well, I'm off to bed, to dream up more ways to keep a brother down.  Paes, be prepared to be consumed with Holy Wrath^TM at my outrageous acts of oppression on this very board, come tomorrow.  That way, you won't even notice when the people who are actually oppressing you come down on you like a ten ton sack of pigshit.

Way to go.

In fairness, no one's oppressing Paes. He's a straight white cis guy, bless him.

Really?  To hear him talk, the ghost of Bull O'Connor shows up every night to give him a prodding.  Because, apparently, my objecting to labels is - not that he was talking about ME, mind you - something reminiscent of Jim Crow days.  It is in fact apparently on the same level (but not ME, he was just saying) as running out and blasting civil rights marchers with a fire hose.  Alas, I live in the high desert, and the water pressure I have available would only knock down the very young and the very old.

What's an oppressor to do?  I mean, if he was talking about me, which I am assured that he is not.

Dirty Old Uncle Roger,
Potential, theoretical vicious oppressor of the masses.  Maybe.

[Pæs]

I'm glad this time you at least READ the part where I said it wasn't describing your attitude.
The next step is believing it.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

"I am just trying to be a better person."

I actually read this as genuine at first. My bad.
And then Roger was a successful troll.

Then Roger didn't take you seriously when you went off the fucking deep end.

Or words to that effect.

Well, I'm off to bed, to dream up more ways to keep a brother down.  Paes, be prepared to be consumed with Holy Wrath^TM at my outrageous acts of oppression on this very board, come tomorrow.  That way, you won't even notice when the people who are actually oppressing you come down on you like a ten ton sack of pigshit.

Way to go.

Yeah, go with the "everyone calls me the villain" act. If anyone has bought into into of the strawmen you've been dissecting, they might assume that's a reasonable script for you to start reading from.

I don't think you're an evil oppressor and I'm not particularly upset, so nobody is going to get all CU on you. I'm just working through whether I have enough new information to dramatically revise my previously high opinion on you or whether you only seem to be an asshole because I'm limiting myself to this thread, in which I think you're an asshole.

I have it on good authority that I am in fact an asshole, and have always been an asshole.  To make things worse, I am an unrepetent asshole, which is sort of like those rock stars back in the 80s, when it was okay if you got caught with drugs, as long as you were good and repentent about it.  To deny that you had a problem was the sin, not the massive lines of crank themselves.

In any case, I have just checked with my wife, and she agrees that I am an asshole.  This of course invalidates anything I have said to date, because my assholishness is prove positive that anything I may have said is to be scratched off as "the pill-driven frenzy of an asshole".

So, you'd best revise that opinion, because I'd hate for people to associate you with an enormous gaping prostate like myself.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I'm glad this time you at least READ the part where I said it wasn't describing your attitude.
The next step is believing it.

Go back and read your posts.  We seem to be having a slight disconnect, here.  I can explain a little better, if you'd like, what I think the problem is that is causing this communication issue.

[Freeky]

ATTENTION ROGER

WE HAVE BEEN INFORMED THAT YOU ARE AN ASSHOLE.

PLEASE SUBMIT YOURSELF FOR REEDUCATION.  WE WILL BE INFORMING YOUR SUPERIORS AT WORK THAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO ATTEND THE ANGER MANAGEMENT SERVICES.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

I'm just against the politics of division.  There are people out there that COUNT on us being divided.

Does that make me "privileged"? 

So I'm privileged.

So am I. Both against that division and privileged. Choosing to just see people as people is much easier when you aren't given daily reminders that you are one of "those people".

Attacking the concept of cisgenderism feels to me like telling blacks that "there ain't no 'whitey' we're all just people" as if THEY are responsible for the distinction being made.

So because some people treat a minority on the basis of a single label... they should create labels to fight back with?

That just doesn't make sense to me if we're aiming for equality. It does make sense if we're aiming to perpetuate tribalism, Us vs Them. Ya gotta give Them a label.

So far the only argument I've seen for 'cis' that makes sense is as a term for use in medical/scientific/psychology/sociology papers discussing specific aspects of cis/trans research. As soon as we take it out of that context and say "cis people do/don't think/behave/understand/etc." we've gone right off the deep end, left the idea of treating people as people behind and dropped into labeling for no useful purpose.

I am a heterosexual male, who aside from the occasional cross dressing for fun, doesn't have any gender/genetic difference. However, I doubt (strongly doubt, though I could be wrong) that any generic statement about 'cis' people is gonna apply usefully to me. I have never treated or thought of a trans person as anything other than a person. It sucks that some monkeys do, but I don't and that those monkeys and I happen to share a single trait is a pretty nutty thing to consider valuable or important.

"Yeah, but people don't treat you differently because of your gender identity". So what? Prejudice exists. It exists for women, for transgendered people, for gays, for various religious groups, for various ethnic groups for various body types and for any of a thousand reasons that one group of monkeys can say "that person is different". That is exactly what we should be fighting against... not providing support for.

If instead of saying "Yeah, I'm transgendered, you're cis" the better statement is "No you fuck, I am a human being and so are you". It doesn't matter if we live in a perfect society or a perfectly horrible society, labels never help. To swipe from the PD:

WHAT BOTHERS YOU, MAL? YOU DON'T SOUND WELL.

        "I am filled with fear and tormented with terrible visions of pain. Everywhere people are labeling one another, the planet is rampant with injustices, whole societies subjugate groups of other people just because one aspect of their life is different, men label women, straights label gays, cis label trans. O, woe."

        WHAT IS THE MATTER WITH THAT, IF IT IS WHAT YOU WANT TO DO?

        "But nobody wants it! Everybody hates it."

        OH. WELL, THEN STOP.

The only way we can improve society is by improving ourselves. The only way we can change something about the machine is to change our own part in the mechanics. If humans want to rid our society of labels, then humans have to rid society of labels, starting with their own usage.

"Why do I get paid less... Oh because I am a *label*" is an example of why labels fail.
"Why do I get paid less... Oh because my boss is still behaving like a employer from the 19th century" is far more correct and places the blame where it belongs.

Accepting the labels others stick on you is a terrible injustice, to yourself and the people doing the labeling. Making up labels for the labelers is just descending to their level and an equal injustice.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

My wife says to mention the fact that I am - in addition to being an asshole - a dumbass.

This is okay with me, as she LIKES 'em big & dumb, and I'm a bigger dumbass every day.  Her opinion counts in these matters, you see.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

That just doesn't make sense to me if we're aiming for equality. It does make sense if we're aiming to perpetuate tribalism, Us vs Them. Ya gotta give Them a label.

It helps if you're gonna shoot 'em or dump a trainload of artillery on them, too.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

ATTENTION ROGER

WE HAVE BEEN INFORMED THAT YOU ARE AN ASSHOLE.

PLEASE SUBMIT YOURSELF FOR REEDUCATION.  WE WILL BE INFORMING YOUR SUPERIORS AT WORK THAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO ATTEND THE ANGER MANAGEMENT SERVICES.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.

Going to anger management on Monday.

In Louisiana.   

[Luna]

ATTENTION ROGER

WE HAVE BEEN INFORMED THAT YOU ARE AN ASSHOLE.

PLEASE SUBMIT YOURSELF FOR REEDUCATION.  WE WILL BE INFORMING YOUR SUPERIORS AT WORK THAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO ATTEND THE ANGER MANAGEMENT SERVICES.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.

Going to anger management on Monday.

In Louisiana.   

Oh, that should be something.  They have as much Nature down there as we do out here...

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

That just doesn't make sense to me if we're aiming for equality. It does make sense if we're aiming to perpetuate tribalism, Us vs Them. Ya gotta give Them a label.

It helps if you're gonna shoot 'em or dump a trainload of artillery on them, too.

Hey those Charleys/Gooks/Krauts/Sandnags DESERVED IT!

[Pæs]

"I am just trying to be a better person."

I actually read this as genuine at first. My bad.
And then Roger was a successful troll.

Then Roger didn't take you seriously when you went off the fucking deep end.

Or words to that effect.

Well, I'm off to bed, to dream up more ways to keep a brother down.  Paes, be prepared to be consumed with Holy Wrath^TM at my outrageous acts of oppression on this very board, come tomorrow.  That way, you won't even notice when the people who are actually oppressing you come down on you like a ten ton sack of pigshit.

Way to go.

Yeah, go with the "everyone calls me the villain" act. If anyone has bought into into of the strawmen you've been dissecting, they might assume that's a reasonable script for you to start reading from.

I don't think you're an evil oppressor and I'm not particularly upset, so nobody is going to get all CU on you. I'm just working through whether I have enough new information to dramatically revise my previously high opinion on you or whether you only seem to be an asshole because I'm limiting myself to this thread, in which I think you're an asshole.

I have it on good authority that I am in fact an asshole, and have always been an asshole.  To make things worse, I am an unrepetent asshole, which is sort of like those rock stars back in the 80s, when it was okay if you got caught with drugs, as long as you were good and repentent about it.  To deny that you had a problem was the sin, not the massive lines of crank themselves.

In any case, I have just checked with my wife, and she agrees that I am an asshole.  This of course invalidates anything I have said to date, because my assholishness is prove positive that anything I may have said is to be scratched off as "the pill-driven frenzy of an asshole".

So, you'd best revise that opinion, because I'd hate for people to associate you with an enormous gaping prostate like myself.

I'll make a note of that. Is my lac of interest in protecting everyone from you by revealing you as the criminal mastermind that you are going to be a problem? Because I can summon up some obsession if you want it.

I'm glad this time you at least READ the part where I said it wasn't describing your attitude.
The next step is believing it.

Go back and read your posts.  We seem to be having a slight disconnect, here.  I can explain a little better, if you'd like, what I think the problem is that is causing this communication issue.

Every time I have said this exact same thing to you, you haven't acknowledged it and continued to operate on information from that disconnect. This is what has caused me to write you off with regards to this thread.The part where I specifically say I am not addressing you directly isn't snark or anything, it's because of this previous misunderstanding.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

ATTENTION ROGER

WE HAVE BEEN INFORMED THAT YOU ARE AN ASSHOLE.

PLEASE SUBMIT YOURSELF FOR REEDUCATION.  WE WILL BE INFORMING YOUR SUPERIORS AT WORK THAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO ATTEND THE ANGER MANAGEMENT SERVICES.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.

Going to anger management on Monday.

In Louisiana.   

Oh, that should be something.  They have as much Nature down there as we do out here...

I know.  I have to go there all the fucking time.

[Freeky]

ATTENTION ROGER

WE HAVE BEEN INFORMED THAT YOU ARE AN ASSHOLE.

PLEASE SUBMIT YOURSELF FOR REEDUCATION.  WE WILL BE INFORMING YOUR SUPERIORS AT WORK THAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO ATTEND THE ANGER MANAGEMENT SERVICES.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.

Going to anger management on Monday.

In Louisiana.   

All right, I'll admit it.  I cackled at that.  I startled Torch's little one, too, as well as Torch, Torch's BF, and his brother.

Ooops.