Oh Noez! What about Teh Menz? -Patriarchy isn't a dude's friend EITHER!

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Prediction:  Having disagreed with CW, Nigel will now be told that her posting style and content is not up to standard, and that she's doin' it wrong.

Prediction:  There will be gore splattered all over the inside surface of my plasma screen.

Don't be silly.  Nigel is actually saying things worth thinking about, so why would I say that to her?  Your prediction is wrong.

Only because I said it out loud.



And as far as the rest of your bullshit, well, it's not like I haven't seen that sort of monkey shit before, right?  The Discordian knows that if there is ONE THING, even ONE TINY THING which another person can say in words or write down or draw in a picture which can cause said Discordian to have some kind of hissyfit "How DARE you?" reaction, that is a handle attached directly to the brain, by which The Machine™ can pick up that Discordian and walk it around like a funny little doll - just the way it does its little workdrones, hipsters, and other such humans.  It is the duty of the Discordian to purge him/her/itself of such weakness.

You have failed to do so, at least so far, judging by the butthurt that has dripped from every insulting post you have so far attempted in this thread.

FUCK 'EM IF THEY CAN'T TAKE A JOKE.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

All of these are reasons why I think that conversations about feminism and patriarchy are incomplete without discussion of the ways in which patriarchy fails men. We're all in this together.

I'm gonna ask at this point if it's the patriarchy doing most of the failing, or just society in general.  While it IS true that worker bee Joe Doakes is conditioned by the system every bit as much as his wife is, the male apes at the top of the heap seem to do very nicely indeed.

In fact, I'm going to put forth the possibility that the "patriarchy" has been effectively dead for 20 years, and that we are conditioned to fight gender vs gender in the same way that we fight left vs right and race vs race, to the benefit of the top tier monkeys.

Not saying that's a fact, but it did occur to me.

"Patriarchy" is part of "society in general". I think it would be profoundly premature to argue that patriarchy is dead.

That's a point, but one thing worth mentioning is that a patriarchy doesn't mean "male dominated", then.  It means "some males dominate, the rest fill their appointed roles."

I can't really agree with that, either, because in society a patriarchal structure places all men above all women of otherwise equal social status in terms of power. Because of society's hierarchical structure, some men will be at the top, and increasingly larger numbers of men will be toward the bottom of the social status curve. Women of high status will be above men of low status, but below men of high status. Women of low status are above nobody, except, depending on the other hierarchical structures in place, women of color and possibly men of color.

It's a bunch of interrelated hierarchies that work together. Sex, financial class, and race are the three big ones.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

All of these are reasons why I think that conversations about feminism and patriarchy are incomplete without discussion of the ways in which patriarchy fails men. We're all in this together.

I'm gonna ask at this point if it's the patriarchy doing most of the failing, or just society in general.  While it IS true that worker bee Joe Doakes is conditioned by the system every bit as much as his wife is, the male apes at the top of the heap seem to do very nicely indeed.

In fact, I'm going to put forth the possibility that the "patriarchy" has been effectively dead for 20 years, and that we are conditioned to fight gender vs gender in the same way that we fight left vs right and race vs race, to the benefit of the top tier monkeys.

Not saying that's a fact, but it did occur to me.

"Patriarchy" is part of "society in general". I think it would be profoundly premature to argue that patriarchy is dead.

That's a point, but one thing worth mentioning is that a patriarchy doesn't mean "male dominated", then.  It means "some males dominate, the rest fill their appointed roles."

I can't really agree with that, either, because in society a patriarchal structure places all men above all women of otherwise equal social status in terms of power. Because of society's hierarchical structure, some men will be at the top, and increasingly larger numbers of men will be toward the bottom of the social status curve. Women of high status will be above men of low status, but below men of high status. Women of low status are above nobody, except, depending on the other hierarchical structures in place, women of color and possibly men of color.

It's a bunch of interrelated hierarchies that work together. Sex, financial class, and race are the three big ones.

You wouldn't include religion?

[Juana]

I would (Protestants at the top, Catholics and Orthodox, Jews are next, and then everybody else at the bottom in one giant heap), although some of that plays into race.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

<cough>

Having just spent nine years working from home, I am going to goddamn unequivocally say that "working from home" DOES NOT equal "being a homemaker". If my primary job had been taking care of the house and children, and my husband was paying the bills, then sure, yes.

It does with Chris.  The man is a ball of energy.  Manages a 6 year old son, one-year-old twin girls, his job, AND the house. 

It's unfair, really.  I could use some of that energy.

Youth is wasted on the young.

I'm still gonna disagree. He's not going to receive social disapproval for being a homemaker if he's also holding a job. Instead he gets accolades for being "superdad".

A homemaker or househusband/housewife is someone who is financially supported by their spouse while their job is taking care of the house and kids. Not somebody who "does it all".

Yeah. When a man does it, he gets accolades. When a woman does it, it's just what's expected..."Whaddya want, a fuckin medal or somethin'?"

Did the single working mom thing for years. I think I was pretty typical. No affordable daycare or afterschool program, low income, crappy job punching a cash register, swing shift, no child support. Like the magazine covers used to say: "You CAN have it all!"  (Feminism can be twisted into a big "FUCK YOU" by some - "You're LIBERATED - deal with it" Bigger patriarchy than ever these days.) The first thing to go is the housework and the yard. Sometimes you can do it, other times you work a ten hour shift, get home at midnight and have to be back at 6:30 am, so you don't. Which leads people to think you're ON DRUGZ. CPS got tired of investigating me. They'd actually sound embarrassed when they called: "We know you're clean, but we got another call, so legally we have to investigate - can you come in and do another drug test?"

Me: I've been here five years now. Kristi started six months ago and you've got her working days. She doesn't have kids. I have two and nobody to watch them and they always get in fights. I get calls from the cops and I have to leave work because the kids are fighting again. Why do you still have me on nights? They told me when I started that it goes by seniority.

Boss: Kristi's still in high school. She has school in the morning. Finding somebody to watch the kids is YOUR RESPONSIBILITY.

Translation: Boss works days and usually left not long after I came in. Kristi is not quite legal and boss liked ogling her ass.

Thank Bob for fortune telling, wish I'd found it 20 years earlier.

How does this hurt men? While it was happening, not at all. I think there's a lot of dads who are going to end up lonely old men with a house reeking of the coffee can full of piss under the bed, eating Spaghetti-O's out of the can, though. Fuck 'em.

[CarvedWood]

Prediction:  Having disagreed with CW, Nigel will now be told that her posting style and content is not up to standard, and that she's doin' it wrong.

Prediction:  There will be gore splattered all over the inside surface of my plasma screen.

Don't be silly.  Nigel is actually saying things worth thinking about, so why would I say that to her?  Your prediction is wrong.

Only because I said it out loud.



And as far as the rest of your bullshit, well, it's not like I haven't seen that sort of monkey shit before, right?  The Discordian knows that if there is ONE THING, even ONE TINY THING which another person can say in words or write down or draw in a picture which can cause said Discordian to have some kind of hissyfit "How DARE you?" reaction, that is a handle attached directly to the brain, by which The Machine™ can pick up that Discordian and walk it around like a funny little doll - just the way it does its little workdrones, hipsters, and other such humans.  It is the duty of the Discordian to purge him/her/itself of such weakness.

You have failed to do so, at least so far, judging by the butthurt that has dripped from every insulting post you have so far attempted in this thread.

FUCK 'EM IF THEY CAN'T TAKE A JOKE.

Or maybe you wanted me to shut up and kiss your ass.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I would (Protestants at the top, Catholics and Orthodox, Jews are next, and then everybody else at the bottom in one giant heap), although some of that plays into race.

Some, yes.  I've seen areas of the country where religion means nothing, and I've seen areas (Oro Valley, AZ and Batavia, IL) where you will lose your job if you are not of the correct religion (never for that reason, of course...There's always an excuse, but it comes down to the people who open their mouths about what religion they are either excel (if Calvinist/Baptist) or fail (if not), with no difference in behavior or performance from those who stay quiet.

Here, it's more important than Black/White, but not as important as Hispanic/White.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Or maybe you wanted me to shut up and kiss your ass.

Nope.  Alty and I did not agree with you 100%, so you became belligerent instead of merely stating your point, from your very first post in this thread...And I don't need primates kissing my ass, CW.  Enough of that shit goes on at my job, and I find it repulsive.  What I do expect is a bit of civility.  You aren't capable of that, so we wind up having THIS conversation.

Frankly, you're a bit of a shitbag, and I don't really have much to say to you that could be remotely considered constructive.  You may fuck off at your convenience, at least with respect to responding to or about me.  Run along, now.

TIA,
Dirty Old Uncle Roger

[Salty]

I merely wanted any discussions about pussyfooting not be pussyfooted around. Because that kind of passive-aggressive bullshit gives me those blood red eyes something fierce, I get all hostile. I don't care who it was in regard to.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

Or maybe you wanted me to shut up and kiss your ass.

Nope.  Alty and I did not agree with you 100%, so you became belligerent instead of merely stating your point, from your very first post in this thread...And I don't need primates kissing my ass, CW.  Enough of that shit goes on at my job, and I find it repulsive.  What I do expect is a bit of civility.  You aren't capable of that, so we wind up having THIS conversation.

Frankly, you're a bit of a shitbag, and I don't really have much to say to you that could be remotely considered constructive.  You may fuck off at your convenience, at least with respect to responding to or about me.  Run along, now.

TIA,
Dirty Old Uncle Roger

Damn. I miss all the fun when I'm writing posts. 

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Or maybe you wanted me to shut up and kiss your ass.

Nope.  Alty and I did not agree with you 100%, so you became belligerent instead of merely stating your point, from your very first post in this thread...And I don't need primates kissing my ass, CW.  Enough of that shit goes on at my job, and I find it repulsive.  What I do expect is a bit of civility.  You aren't capable of that, so we wind up having THIS conversation.

Frankly, you're a bit of a shitbag, and I don't really have much to say to you that could be remotely considered constructive.  You may fuck off at your convenience, at least with respect to responding to or about me.  Run along, now.

TIA,
Dirty Old Uncle Roger

Damn. I miss all the fun when I'm writing posts. 

Apparently, the fact that I find CW to be a bit of a shit means that my patriarchal self wants her to kiss my ass or something.

She was right about the shut up part, but I say that to everyone, regardless of race, sex, religion, or species.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

All of these are reasons why I think that conversations about feminism and patriarchy are incomplete without discussion of the ways in which patriarchy fails men. We're all in this together.

I'm gonna ask at this point if it's the patriarchy doing most of the failing, or just society in general.  While it IS true that worker bee Joe Doakes is conditioned by the system every bit as much as his wife is, the male apes at the top of the heap seem to do very nicely indeed.

In fact, I'm going to put forth the possibility that the "patriarchy" has been effectively dead for 20 years, and that we are conditioned to fight gender vs gender in the same way that we fight left vs right and race vs race, to the benefit of the top tier monkeys.

Not saying that's a fact, but it did occur to me.

"Patriarchy" is part of "society in general". I think it would be profoundly premature to argue that patriarchy is dead.

That's a point, but one thing worth mentioning is that a patriarchy doesn't mean "male dominated", then.  It means "some males dominate, the rest fill their appointed roles."

I can't really agree with that, either, because in society a patriarchal structure places all men above all women of otherwise equal social status in terms of power. Because of society's hierarchical structure, some men will be at the top, and increasingly larger numbers of men will be toward the bottom of the social status curve. Women of high status will be above men of low status, but below men of high status. Women of low status are above nobody, except, depending on the other hierarchical structures in place, women of color and possibly men of color.

It's a bunch of interrelated hierarchies that work together. Sex, financial class, and race are the three big ones.

You wouldn't include religion?

Religion plays a factor, but I would say that it's both less influential and more mutable, and variable from region to region, than the factors of sex, class, and race.

(at this moment in time).

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

Or maybe you wanted me to shut up and kiss your ass.

Nope.  Alty and I did not agree with you 100%, so you became belligerent instead of merely stating your point, from your very first post in this thread...And I don't need primates kissing my ass, CW.  Enough of that shit goes on at my job, and I find it repulsive.  What I do expect is a bit of civility.  You aren't capable of that, so we wind up having THIS conversation.

Frankly, you're a bit of a shitbag, and I don't really have much to say to you that could be remotely considered constructive.  You may fuck off at your convenience, at least with respect to responding to or about me.  Run along, now.

TIA,
Dirty Old Uncle Roger

Damn. I miss all the fun when I'm writing posts. 

Apparently, the fact that I find CW to be a bit of a shit means that my patriarchal self wants her to kiss my ass or something.

She was right about the shut up part, but I say that to everyone, regardless of race, sex, religion, or species.

"HE HAS A KICKSTAND - EVIL! EVIL!" 

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Religion plays a factor, but I would say that it's both less influential and more mutable, and variable from region to region, than the factors of sex, class, and race.

Which explains my initial reaction.  Here, it's definitely as important as gender and race.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Or maybe you wanted me to shut up and kiss your ass.

Nope.  Alty and I did not agree with you 100%, so you became belligerent instead of merely stating your point, from your very first post in this thread...And I don't need primates kissing my ass, CW.  Enough of that shit goes on at my job, and I find it repulsive.  What I do expect is a bit of civility.  You aren't capable of that, so we wind up having THIS conversation.

Frankly, you're a bit of a shitbag, and I don't really have much to say to you that could be remotely considered constructive.  You may fuck off at your convenience, at least with respect to responding to or about me.  Run along, now.

TIA,
Dirty Old Uncle Roger

Damn. I miss all the fun when I'm writing posts. 

Apparently, the fact that I find CW to be a bit of a shit means that my patriarchal self wants her to kiss my ass or something.

She was right about the shut up part, but I say that to everyone, regardless of race, sex, religion, or species.

"HE HAS A KICKSTAND - EVIL! EVIL!" 

Insufficient data.  She became vicious with me and alty, but conciliatory to Garbo and neutral with Nigel.  The trend indicates that you may be correct, but there's only 4 data points, so I'm not comfortable making THAT particular accusation just yet.