Oh Noez! What about Teh Menz? -Patriarchy isn't a dude's friend EITHER!

[Don Coyote]

GUYS STOP BEING A BUNCH OF RUSTY SCABBARDS!!!!!!!!!!!!

[P3nT4gR4m]

According to wikipedia:

The etymology of "cunt" is a matter of debate,[7] but most sources consider the word to have derived from a Germanic word (Proto-Germanic *kuntō, stem *kuntōn-), which appeared as kunta in Old Norse. Scholars are uncertain of the origin of the Proto-Germanic form itself.[8] In Middle English, it appeared with many spellings, such as coynte, cunte and queynte, which did not always reflect the actual pronunciation of the word. There are cognates in most Germanic languages, such as the Swedish, Faroese and Nynorsk kunta; West Frisian and Middle Low German kunte; Middle Dutch conte; Dutch kut; Middle Low German kutte; Middle High German kotze ("prostitute"); German kott, and perhaps Old English cot. The etymology of the Proto-Germanic term is disputed. It may have arisen by Grimm's law operating on the Proto-Indo-European root *gen/gon "create, become" seen in gonads, genital, gamete, genetics, gene, or the Proto-Indo-European root *gʷneh₂/guneh₂ "woman" (Greek: gunê, seen in gynaecology). Relationships to similar-sounding words such as the Latin cunnus ("vulva"), and its derivatives French con, Spanish coño, and Portuguese cona, or in Persian kun (کون), have not been conclusively demonstrated. Other Latin words related to cunnus are cuneus ("wedge") and its derivative cunēre ("to fasten with a wedge", (figurative) "to squeeze in"), leading to English words such as cuneiform ("wedge-shaped").

The word in its modern meaning is attested in Middle English. Proverbs of Hendyng, a manuscript from some time before 1325, includes the advice:[9]

    Ȝeue þi cunte to cunnig and craue affetir wedding.
    (Give your cunt wisely and make (your) demands after the wedding.)

I wasn't around back in the day when the word originated so I couldn't really comment. Back when I learned to use it, it wasn't til years later, when I learned about the concept of a vagina, that I found out that it could be used to refer to that particular new fangled invention as well.

"Pussy" was originally to do with cats and kittens, if memory serves. You aint a big, rough, tough macho beast, you're a little baby kitteh cat makes more sense than you're a female reproductive organ.

So you're one of those people who gets a bug in their (gender neutral) ass cos someone says pussy, right? That's a label, it's a uniform. It's angry, millitant, "I'm being oppressed" crusader, deliberately alienating those who are on their side because they're not on their side enough. Good luck with insisting that everyone in the world see things your (officially sanctioned) way and act in a manner laid down in the guidelines with regards what to think, say and do. It's been tried before, numerous times but, luckily for the rest of us, good generally triumphs.

[Freeky]

Your OOK and your privilege is showing again, P3nt. 

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

While I can see where you, and the others who disagree with me, are coming from, I kind of want to point out that the kind of language a society uses tells you a lot about their values. A culture where the dominant group associates bad things with subordinate ones is indicative of an oppressive and exploitative one.

Well, yeah. And their while opression and exploitation are serious problems, their "values" are a laugh riot.

[tyrannosaurus vex]

Your OOK and your privilege is showing again, P3nt. 

I don't think p3nt is the kind of IRL person who would be one of my friends, honestly. Not that he's a bad guy, I just see him as more of the outdoorsy macho type than I ever have a desire to be near.

HOWEVER

That he engages in traditionally "male" behavior, including activities, hobbies, speech or whatever else is not necessarily him being a monkey or engaging in "privilege." I don't think I've ever seen p3nt be an outright chauvinist here, and in fact he has shown himself to have more depth of character than I've ever seen any chauvinist to have. That alone, in my opinion, absolves him in this conversation of engaging in "privilege." What I see here is that he is being accused of reverting to non-bipedal behavior just because his behavior is abrasive to you.

[Juana]

I wasn't around back in the day when the word originated so I couldn't really comment. Back when I learned to use it, it wasn't til years later, when I learned about the concept of a vagina, that I found out that it could be used to refer to that particular new fangled invention as well.

Did you even read what I posted?

"Pussy" was originally to do with cats and kittens, if memory serves. You aint a big, rough, tough macho beast, you're a little baby kitteh cat makes more sense than you're a female reproductive organ.

So you're one of those people who gets a bug in their (gender neutral) ass cos someone says pussy, right? That's a label, it's a uniform. It's angry, millitant, "I'm being oppressed" crusader, deliberately alienating those who are on their side because they're not on their side enough. Good luck with insisting that everyone in the world see things your (officially sanctioned) way and act in a manner laid down in the guidelines with regards what to think, say and do. It's been tried before, numerous times but, luckily for the rest of us, good generally triumphs.

A) I'm okay with labels. I wear them IF they fit and tweak them with modifiers as necessary, and take 'em off if they eventually don't work for me. Labels and uniforms are not the same thing. A label is used to describe something ("feminist" is a label, "macho" is a label, "Discordian" is a label, "biped" is a label), and these words are useful for describing yourself or talking about things. A uniform is a pre-made, one-size-fits-all identity. "Feminism" can be either, but don't confuse the label for the identity.
Please note that at no time was I angry (I tend to think that the person who raised their voice in anger first has lost the argument) or militant. I don't like the words, that's true. I tend to side-eye people who do use them. But at no time did I screech or show my inner monkey because I was disagreed with and criticized (unlike you).

I mainly wanted to provoke a discussion about these words, how we use them, where they come from, and what they mean. If asking you to think about these things alienated you, I see no reason to give a fuck. Ook ook, motherfucker.
(also, if it was a deliberate attempt to alienate you, it would have been far bigger and wouldn't involve asking you to think about words  )


B) I am oppressed and validly angry about it, and I will not be cowed into silence by your hilariously out of proportion response to my attempt to make you look at the words you use.

While I can see where you, and the others who disagree with me, are coming from, I kind of want to point out that the kind of language a society uses tells you a lot about their values. A culture where the dominant group associates bad things with subordinate ones is indicative of an oppressive and exploitative one.

Well, yeah. And their while opression and exploitation are serious problems, their "values" are a laugh riot.

Expand, please? I'm not clear on what you mean.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

While I can see where you, and the others who disagree with me, are coming from, I kind of want to point out that the kind of language a society uses tells you a lot about their values. A culture where the dominant group associates bad things with subordinate ones is indicative of an oppressive and exploitative one.

Well, yeah. And their while opression and exploitation are serious problems, their "values" are a laugh riot.

Expand, please? I'm not clear on what you mean.

The idea that body parts, labels for people who fuck around, etc. are considered "curse words".

[Faust]

Meh words lose their meaning from overuse.

Look at the word punk, its basically a homophobic insult meaning catamite.

Words never offend me. People with Manager and PC speech are just as likely to discriminate against someone based on gender or sexuality as someone who talks like a sailor.

[P3nT4gR4m]

B) I am oppressed and validly angry about it, and I will not be cowed into silence by your hilariously out of proportion response to my attempt to make you look at the words you use.

[Juana]

Meh words lose their meaning from overuse.

Look at the word punk, its basically a homophobic insult meaning catamite.

Words never offend me. People with Manager and PC speech are just as likely to discriminate against someone based on gender or sexuality as someone who talks like a sailor.

There's literally no association with that here, so I'm only familiar with it via music. Interesting. I'll have to look into that.

That has more to do with being ignorant, I would argue.

B) I am oppressed and validly angry about it, and I will not be cowed into silence by your hilariously out of proportion response to my attempt to make you look at the words you use.

[tyrannosaurus vex]

Meh words lose their meaning from overuse.

Look at the word punk, its basically a homophobic insult meaning catamite.

Words never offend me. People with Manager and PC speech are just as likely to discriminate against someone based on gender or sexuality as someone who talks like a sailor.

This.

Also... no, basically just that.

[Faust]

Meh words lose their meaning from overuse.

Look at the word punk, its basically a homophobic insult meaning catamite.

Words never offend me. People with Manager and PC speech are just as likely to discriminate against someone based on gender or sexuality as someone who talks like a sailor.

There's literally no association with that here, so I'm only familiar with it via music. Interesting. I'll have to look into that.

That has more to do with being ignorant, I would argue.

B) I am oppressed and validly angry about it, and I will not be cowed into silence by your hilariously out of proportion response to my attempt to make you look at the words you use.

It literally doesn't have that association any more , punk has had several meanings before ever hitting the music name.

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=punk

[Juana]

Thanks for the link, Faust! I agree that word has totally mutated enough for the origins not to matter anymore.

While I can see where you, and the others who disagree with me, are coming from, I kind of want to point out that the kind of language a society uses tells you a lot about their values. A culture where the dominant group associates bad things with subordinate ones is indicative of an oppressive and exploitative one.

Well, yeah. And their while opression and exploitation are serious problems, their "values" are a laugh riot.

Expand, please? I'm not clear on what you mean.

The idea that body parts, labels for people who fuck around, etc. are considered "curse words".

Ah. The thing is is that the dominant group made those words into curse words. Which is the problem. *shrug* I'm all in favor of reclaiming them, though.

[Juana]

Meh words lose their meaning from overuse.

Look at the word punk, its basically a homophobic insult meaning catamite.

Words never offend me. People with Manager and PC speech are just as likely to discriminate against someone based on gender or sexuality as someone who talks like a sailor.

This.

Also... no, basically just that.

Yes, I agree that words can mutate enough for the origin not to matter any more (like "punk" apparently). But my argument is that the words have not mutated enough for that association to be dead yet.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

"Pussy" was originally to do with cats and kittens, if memory serves. You aint a big, rough, tough macho beast, you're a little baby kitteh cat makes more sense than you're a female reproductive organ.

Actually I mentioned the origin a few posts back.

Pussy as in the female reproductive organ comes from Saxon/Norse roots relating to pocket and vulva.
Pussy as in "Dude, you're a pussy" comes from Latin/Old French origins and is either a corruption of the word "pursy" (or pursy is a corruption of pussy), which means to be fat and short of breath, pampered etc. So calling a guy a pussy means he is weak... not a female body part.

There doesn't appear to actually be a connection with the pussy as in cat.

They have completely separate roots.