The Deciders

[Juana]

I'm not interested in feeding Pent, there, but I want point out that lions are probably a bad metaphor because lions are not actually very useful and eat their step kids.

[Signora Pæsior]

I want point out that lions are probably a bad metaphor because lions are not actually very useful and eat their step kids.

I want to hang this quote up on my wall, sans context. It's beautiful.

[Juana]

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

Stella, I'm sorry for being so bitchy. I think you're right and I'm overextended. I really need to mellow out.

No problem, Nigel, it's all good.
Just came back to check what was happening here and glad I did, but still bowing out of this one. Not because of anything you said, really, except in the sense that it's part of the writing on the wall. Bowing out because this whole thing's turning to a clusterfuck.

[Juana]

Stella, I'm sorry for being so bitchy. I think you're right and I'm overextended. I really need to mellow out.

No problem, Nigel, it's all good.
Just came back to check what was happening here and glad I did, but still bowing out of this one. Not because of anything you said, really, except in the sense that it's part of the writing on the wall. Bowing out because this whole thing's turning to a clusterfuck.

Yep. I don't think I really want to talk about kyriarchy here anymore. Which is a shame.

[AFK]

Meh, I think the crux of this thread is still woefully misdirected politics of division.  I'd love to have one of you go to some of the old French families inmy community, who have experienced GENERATIONAL poverty, with straight white male fathers/husbands, and tell them they are Deciders. 


That's more than anecdote, there are whole neighborhoods full of these families, and they are in YOUR communities too,maybe they are Irish instead, or English, or whatever...


They aren't fucking Deciders.  They've been getting the screws put to them for decades.


Broad brush fail!

[MMIX]

Meh, I think the crux of this thread is still woefully misdirected politics of division.  I'd love to have one of you go to some of the old French families inmy community, who have experienced GENERATIONAL poverty, with straight white male fathers/husbands, and tell them they are Deciders. 


That's more than anecdote, there are whole neighborhoods full of these families, and they are in YOUR communities too,maybe they are Irish instead, or English, or whatever...


They aren't fucking Deciders.  They've been getting the screws put to them for decades.


Broad brush fail!

No quite the reverse, actually. Broad brush WIN; why? Because you have just brought us right back to where this whole slew of threads /arguments discussions /misinterpretations started:-

   Oh Noez! What about Teh Menz? -Patriarchy isn't a dude's friend EITHER!

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

If there's no way in hell I can possibly understand your thing then why in fuck have you dedicated your existence to trying to explain it to me?

Oh wait, that's right you're not trying to explain, you're just impotently bitching and whining? fine. Carry on.

(White) men cannot understand, but our help is needed. We have an obligation to help, partly because we recognize there is a problem and partly because we are the ones "in charge," so we are the only ones who can change things. At least, without a revolution. But we cannot be in charge of what needs to be done, and since we do not understand what it is like to be oppressed we cannot offer advice on what might mitigate that oppression if our advice has anything to do with changing the opinions or behaviors of the oppressed. We can only be of assistance in doing it. We are like lions, if a lion could be hired to guide a safari through lion territory.

OK, good, the two of you have succeeded in convincing me that you're both complete fucking idiots with no interest in social change or understanding.


In closing, go fuck yourselves to death with sharp sticks. Congratulations on being part of the problem, DIAF. That is all.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Yeah, that's what I thought. Guess I'll just chew on this antelope leg and watch from the sidelines with detached amusement

You, personally, are the biggest and most useless piece of shit since that fat retarded Republican that foams up the radio. You're useless, AND you seem to suffer from fetal alcohol syndrome or similar cognitive development setbacks. It's too bad your country doesn't have more support for the weak, or that might have been preventable... but you probably deserved it.

[AFK]

Some straight white males are the deciders....


There are plenty who are on the butt-end of decisions, including those shaped by black men (Obama), women (Congresswomen), gay men (Barney Frank), along with all of the straight white males who were born into the RIGHT straight white families.


This smells of politics of division, to me, and I think is the wrong direction to go in, IMO.

On a cultural level (which is what Nigel's talking about when she says "Deciders") all white straight men are the ones who decide how things will go.

Horseshit.  Again, I'd love to see you try to sell that shit to a straight white male drowning in generational poverty.  Please have a camera with you when you do, I really want to see what happens.

Also, "yeah, some of us have to deal with decisions made by x groups" is kind of begrudging those groups their progress (particularly because those are individual people and not an entire culture).

Yet, somehow, the straight white men in power and their actions speak for all straight white males.  That's some flimsy ass logic you are working with there.

We've lived under the onerous (less so, the last fifty-ish years) yoke of white straight men (this comment is attacking the system, not anyone here because PD seems to be populated by people who get how shitty history is). Let us have our progress. Further, we are still, by far, outweighed by the power of straight white men.

Uh, no one wants to take progress away, but fuck, if you are going to deal in this broad politics of division, painting with such broad strokes, you are going to make future progress that much harder.  If you are going to lump poor white men in with the 1%, how,do you think that's going to go over?  Or maybe you don't care.  But I don't find that to be very fairminded.

[Juana]

You are really not getting it. Advertising is aimed at SWM. Politicians throw the rest of the population under the bus to get their vote. Books and video games are aimed at SWM.

Your consumption determines societal output. Fucking read what I goddamn posted in the post right after that.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Meh, I think the crux of this thread is still woefully misdirected politics of division.  I'd love to have one of you go to some of the old French families inmy community, who have experienced GENERATIONAL poverty, with straight white male fathers/husbands, and tell them they are Deciders. 


That's more than anecdote, there are whole neighborhoods full of these families, and they are in YOUR communities too,maybe they are Irish instead, or English, or whatever...


They aren't fucking Deciders.  They've been getting the screws put to them for decades.


Broad brush fail!

No quite the reverse, actually. Broad brush WIN; why? Because you have just brought us right back to where this whole slew of threads /arguments discussions /misinterpretations started:-

   Oh Noez! What about Teh Menz? -Patriarchy isn't a dude's friend EITHER!

What she said.

[AFK]

You are really not getting it. Advertising is aimed at SWM. Politicians throw the rest of the population under the bus to get their vote. Books and video games are aimed at SWM.

Your consumption determines societal output. Fucking read what I goddamn posted in the post right after that.

Being "The Deciders" for XBOX marketing isn't quite the same as being "The Deciders" for public policy.  Again, I dare you to go tell some poor white kid that he is a "Decider" for the latter.  And I'm not sure poor white kids are really at the top of the list for marketers either, since without the Almighty dollars, they can't actually Decide on jack shit.

[Juana]

Sure, I'll tell him.

[Faust]

You are really not getting it. Advertising is aimed at SWM. Politicians throw the rest of the population under the bus to get their vote. Books and video games are aimed at SWM.

Your consumption determines societal output. Fucking read what I goddamn posted in the post right after that.

Being "The Deciders" for XBOX marketing isn't quite the same as being "The Deciders" for public policy. 

Yes one has a direct impact on the lives of millions and and enacts change over time, the other is public policy.