Israel starving refugees to death at its border

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I maintain my response to that, and recommend it to Verbl:

"Because this is my home.  YOU get the fuck out."

Yup. I try to remember to say that, but I have the disadvantage of actually living in Germany for the past five years, and in any case I tend to instead lecture them on my right to speak out against injustice and stuff like that... Frankly, it's no wonder the Israeli Left is in demise, we have a culture of being total losers in political debates.

I know the feeling.

[tyrannosaurus vex]

Honestly, I would like to believe that Israel should fucking know better.

Given their history, what on Earth would lead you to believe anything of the kind?

Maybe it's something like the children who are raised in abusive homes who are more likely to continue the cycle of abuse when they have children of their own.

[hooplala]

"If you hate America so much, move to Canada." ?

Yeah, thanks for that... I'm still picking Janeane Garofalo out of my colon...

[Verbal Mike]

Honestly, I would like to believe that Israel should fucking know better.

Given their history, what on Earth would lead you to believe anything of the kind?

Maybe it's something like the children who are raised in abusive homes who are more likely to continue the cycle of abuse when they have children of their own.

I've been saying that ever since I heard about that correlation as a preteen.

Nowadays I like to think of it like this: trauma is a disease; like many diseases, it continues to exist by getting its host to pass it on to a new host. So back in the early 20th century a lot of Germans were traumatized by a pretty crappy few decades, and collectively Germany was traumatized by crushing defeat and humiliation in WWI, and they passed on their trauma to us Jews (with interest, probably, because they can't possibly have had it that bad). And then we ran away and huddled together and started passing on the trauma to our new neighbors. And they're all fucked up now, too, maybe more than they were before.

[Verbal Mike]

http://972mag.com/asylum-seekers-trapped-on-egypt-israel-border-go-6-days-without-food/55182/ (see update at bottom)

The IDF Spokesman's Unit is saying that as of today they are being given food, too.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I always say that anything that can be vividly-enough described can become reality, which is why science fiction predicts the future. But I am starting to doubt myself, because it seems like human beings just can't get past petty tribalism and cruelty toward other humans.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I always say that anything that can be vividly-enough described can become reality, which is why science fiction predicts the future. But I am starting to doubt myself, because it seems like human beings just can't get past petty tribalism and cruelty toward other humans.

Science fiction DOES predict the future.  But we've been reading the wrong books.

[Cain]

Warhammer 40K is science fiction.  Not all hope is lost.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Warhammer 40K is science fiction.  Not all hope is lost.

Warhammer 40K is half the population of the world as we speak.

Only without the cool shit.

[The Dark Monk]

Warhammer 40K is science fiction.  Not all hope is lost.

Warhammer 40K is half the population of the world as we speak.

Only without the cool shit.

True. I've heard some speeches as of late which do compare to:
"It is better to die for the Emperor than live for yourself."

[Verbal Mike]

Update: a few days ago, the IDF and government announced that the two women and one minor boy were let into Israel (now held in a presumably awful prison of some sort, but at least not being starved to death) and that the rest of the group, all men "turned back".

Also a few days ago – before the men "turned back" – some of the soldiers who were there were interviewed. One of them said something like "it's hard to see these people, thin as skeletons and all cut up, but they're a danger to our security and we're proud of protecting our country". Where they got the idea that these near-dead individuals were a danger is not hard to figure out in light of the very public high-level incitement I mentioned above.

Today, an organization called We Are Refugees, started by lawyers to provide asylum seekers with legal aid and get them their rights, took testimonies from the three.

They say that the soldiers went out to the group and started dragging the men across the older, smaller fence to the undisputedly Egyptian side of the border. Some of the men – all of whom were hardly able to move, after being starved, but tried to resist – begged the soldiers to kill them rather than return them to Egypt. The soldiers did not oblige. And tear gas was used on the group at some point(s), apparently before they "turned back".

This is beyond my ability to process. This is on par with stories one hears from victims of Nazi persecution (albeit on a smaller scale, so far at least.) I'm kind of in shock.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

This is beyond my ability to process. This is on par with stories one hears from victims of Nazi persecution (albeit on a smaller scale, so far at least.) I'm kind of in shock.

No, it's not.  If it were the Nazis, it would have happened inside a fenced compound, with the victims having been brought there expressly for the purpose of starving or murdering them.

This is an awful thing, but there are levels of bad between "unpleasant", "inhumane", and "death camps".

[Verbal Mike]

Yeah, fair enough. I kinda classed that under scale, but it's not really the same thing.

[Prince Glittersnatch III]

Warhammer 40K is science fiction.  Not all hope is lost.

Warhammer 40K is half the population of the world as we speak.

Only without the cool shit.

True. I've heard some speeches as of late which do compare to:
"It is better to die for the Emperor than live for yourself."

Reason begets doubt, doubt begets heresy.
Heresy begets retribution.
ImperialAMERICAN^TM Thought for the Day.

[Verbal Mike]

Haaretz have now translated the piece that so shocked me yesterday:
http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/eritrean-migrants-tell-of-idf-violence-at-israel-egypt-border-1.464325