How most men, even good caring men, have no clue what women go through

[ñͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅé ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞]

For the record, I still like Pent and RWHN, in spite of our differences.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Freeky's, yours, or mine?

The one I just quoted in my post.

I'm not intentionally being dense, but I've checked about six pages for a post of yours involving a quote and I don't see it. Is the one you mean in a different thread?

I think he means the part where you said *shrug*

Actually, the sentence right after that: "Pent brings out my inner RWHN."

Nobody seems to give a shit about being human towards each other anymore.  There's no TIME for that sort of thing anymore, on account of The Cause.

Having issues that you care about is not mutually exclusive to treating people like human beings.

THAT is what I have been trying to say, and THAT is what has not been the case, here.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

For the record, I still like Pent and RWHN, in spite of our differences.

I haven't been particularly fond of RWHN, because a couple of years ago, I fell into the same trap that many people have fallen into here.

And for that I am sorry.

[AFK]

Eh, I CAN be a bit of a pill at times.  There is definitely a strong stubborn streak that runs in my family.  Must be the French-Canadian blood.

[Juana]

Ah. No, I just don't like Pent. Or RWHN. That has nothing to do with the cause and everything to do with their behavior.

Can you identify when you started disliking P3nt?  Or RWHN?  Because - and I could be wrong - I remember you first expressing it in the Patriarchy Thread.

That would be when I started disliking Pent, yes, based on nanny-nanny-boo-boo look at how much I don't care! over and over again. RWHN, I've found mildly annoying and a little douchey for quite some time, but his behavior in this thread (denying that women across the board face certain kinds of discrimination, etc., without really acknowledging the evidence provided by anyone or trying to counter it in favor of shrieking about class when it had already been ceded that class is an important factor) made me not like him. I hate talking to walls.

I'm not going to belabor the point, I just had a small thought about how best to explain the various power dynamics at play in terms of Bayesean probability.  I'm much more interested in this new term of Feminasm, anyway.

The poking with sticks is unfortunately inevitable, but you know what Eris says:  "Oh.  Then stop."

Yes.

Eh, I CAN be a bit of a pill at times.  There is definitely a strong stubborn streak that runs in my family.  Must be the French-Canadian blood.

Hmm, I still don't like you very much, but that might explain me, too.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I hate talking to walls.

Then maybe you should step back and ask WHY your ideas aren't getting through.

If it's because of the person you're talking to, then there's no point in continuing.  Move on.

If it's because you are expressing it in a manner not likely to gain someone's attention, then perhaps you need to modify your approach.

And at all times, you should be questioning whether you are trying to convince someone, trying to dictate to them, or trying to show your own moral superiority.  If it's the latter two, you're better off saying affirmations into the bathroom mirror.

[East Coast Hustle]

Shit, I've wanted to smack both RWHN and Pent in the neck on occasion (and some of the rest of you too) but I try not to let that obscure the fact that, by and large, the regular posters here are some of the most decent people I've ever come across, even the ones that end up being painted as "the bad guys".

Now, I don't know why this didn't occur to me until now but I just noticed that, interestingly, this discussion about gender inequality seems to have broken down in an interesting way. It seems to have broken down largely (and there are obvious exceptions so let's not get into a bunch of hand-raising) along class lines (at least as I perceive the socioeconomic status of posters here).

I'm not sure what that means even if it's true, but it's interesting.

ETA: perhaps a better way to say it would be that it seems to have created a divide between people who have or have had intimate personal experience with actual poverty and those who haven't (again, according to my perception of the posters here) regardless of everyone's current socioeconomic status.

[AFK]

Ah. No, I just don't like Pent. Or RWHN. That has nothing to do with the cause and everything to do with their behavior.

Can you identify when you started disliking P3nt?  Or RWHN?  Because - and I could be wrong - I remember you first expressing it in the Patriarchy Thread.

That would be when I started disliking Pent, yes, based on nanny-nanny-boo-boo look at how much I don't care! over and over again. RWHN, I've found mildly annoying and a little douchey for quite some time, but his behavior in this thread (denying that women across the board face certain kinds of discrimination, etc., without really acknowledging the evidence provided by anyone or trying to counter it in favor of shrieking about class when it had already been ceded that class is an important factor) made me not like him. I hate talking to walls.

It felt to me like you were downplaying and discrediting my viewpoint that class seriously blunts, if not negates, any possible gender advantage poor people would have.  My "behavior" was simply to support an angle that I felt wasn't truly being honored or,respected in the conversation.  I work with poor people on a regular basis and feel their plight is largely ignored outside of the occassional empty platitude from a politician.  So I am passionate about them having fair and accurate portrayals of their reality.


And the intent is not to discredit the inequality of women, but, to put perspective on how a discussion of privilege could come across to someone who is in that position of class disadvantage.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Eh, I CAN be a bit of a pill at times.  There is definitely a strong stubborn streak that runs in my family.  Must be the French-Canadian blood.

Unlike me.  I am the soul of reasoned behavior at all times.

[P3nT4gR4m]

For the record, I still like Pent and RWHN, in spite of our differences.

Likewise! Disagreeing with someone's dumbass POV does not make you or them evil. It does not reduce them to something subhuman and beneath your contempt and deserving of expiry by rapid oxidisation. Just means you don't see things the same way. People who agree with me about everything? Arseholes the lot of them.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Shit, I've wanted to smack both RWHN and Pent in the neck on occasion (and some of the rest of you too) but I try not to let that obscure the fact that, by and large, the regular posters here are some of the most decent people I've ever come across, even the ones that end up being painted as "the bad guys".

Ding!

Now, I don't know why this didn't occur to me until now but I just noticed that, interestingly, this discussion about gender inequality seems to have broken down in an interesting way. It seems to have broken down largely (and there are obvious exceptions so let's not get into a bunch of hand-raising) along class lines (at least as I perceive the socioeconomic status of posters here).

I don't see that.

[LMNO]

Now, I don't know why this didn't occur to me until now but I just noticed that, interestingly, this discussion about gender inequality seems to have broken down in an interesting way. It seems to have broken down largely (and there are obvious exceptions so let's not get into a bunch of hand-raising) along class lines (at least as I perceive the socioeconomic status of posters here).

I'm not sure what that means even if it's true, but it's interesting.

In which way do you see it?  I haven't spent much time thinking about the economic status of PD-ers, so I'm not sure I'm seeing the same patterns.

[tyrannosaurus vex]

Shit, I've wanted to smack both RWHN and Pent in the neck on occasion (and some of the rest of you too) but I try not to let that obscure the fact that, by and large, the regular posters here are some of the most decent people I've ever come across, even the ones that end up being painted as "the bad guys".

Now, I don't know why this didn't occur to me until now but I just noticed that, interestingly, this discussion about gender inequality seems to have broken down in an interesting way. It seems to have broken down largely (and there are obvious exceptions so let's not get into a bunch of hand-raising) along class lines (at least as I perceive the socioeconomic status of posters here).

I'm not sure what that means even if it's true, but it's interesting.

I'm not clear on the breaking down along class lines. Are you saying that some perceived gender discrimination is misinterpreted class discrimination, or are you just saying people in a certain class are more likely or less likely to see gender inequality as the primary injustice in society?

For the record if we are talking about all injustice in society I don't know that there's a way to point to one or another kind of injustice and say it's the biggest one. We all have the kinds we are most familiar with and experience the most, but as a whole I think the whole sideshow is a gigantic clusterfuck of inequality and injustice, and you can't make your way more than 15% up the social status ladder without defeating at least three kinds of injustice, no matter who you are.

[East Coast Hustle]

I just amended that post to express it a little more clearly. And yeah, I think I'm saying that people whose experience has been mostly limited to a certain class are more likely to see gender inequality as the primary injustice.

I'm also NOT saying that either way of thinking is correct.

[AFK]

Just in the interest of, kinda, full disclosure, I'm probably middle/upper-class, just based on entire household income, but, most of the people I serve in my job are lower-class or,in poverty.  And also, in a field like mine, stigma is frequently a point of conversation, so those two things probably color where I am coming from on this topic.