The Porn Princess Rant, Re-Written

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Holist, I think you may need to step away and think about what you're actually saying.

"Kids in Africa don't have it as bad as translators." 

[tyrannosaurus vex]

I think on an intellectual level you can equate anything to anything if you build the right metaphors. That doesn't change that there is n honest comparison of porn and freelance writing. You can find yourself forced to write something or for someone you hate, but that isn't the same as being unable to claw your way out of a profession where the person you hate is physically violating you. The gist of this thread was how porn starts as a last resort and becomes a trap with diminishing returns. That can be said of many jobs, but most of the other jobs do not also involve your body becoming a literal commodity for use in the most depraved physical acts, with or without your agreement.

[Dildo Argentino]

So, Holist doesn't do enough translating business today.  His pimp comes by and chokes him out, kicks him around a little, and then rents him out to rough trade for a week.

Yeah, the two jobs are identical.

Absolutely!

Not to mention the diseases you can catch while translating. Move over AIDS! Here comes dry mouth!

Well, and chronic carpal tunnel syndrome (because why not work 15 hours a day for a few weeks if I can pull a decent load), chronic back-pain (because buying decent office furniture for the home office somehow tends to slide down the list of priorities), a variety of eye problems from looking at a screen for far too long, irritability, headaches, spontaneous translation (happens after long symultaneous interpretation gigs). There's nothing to match AIDS, for sure, but there are plenty of opportunities to get crippled. I am not in any way trying to belittle the plight of exploited porn-stars and prostitutes. Exploitation is terrible. But I agree with the Ayotollah: there is some undeclared bias here due to the sex thing. And I know that there exist (not a majority, but by no means unicorns) people who spend a year or two in the sex business, save up and lie back while they figure out what to do with their lives afterwards. They may discover, even years later, that they had bitten off more than they could chew... but that's not necessarily the case.

[Freeky]

V3x and alphapance have the right of it in honesty.

Fidel has the right of it in mockery.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I give up.

Someone else can deal with the unicorn poomp.

[tyrannosaurus vex]

So, Holist doesn't do enough translating business today.  His pimp comes by and chokes him out, kicks him around a little, and then rents him out to rough trade for a week.

Yeah, the two jobs are identical.

Absolutely!

Not to mention the diseases you can catch while translating. Move over AIDS! Here comes dry mouth!

Well, and chronic carpal tunnel syndrome (because why not work 15 hours a day for a few weeks if I can pull a decent load), chronic back-pain (because buying decent office furniture for the home office somehow tends to slide down the list of priorities), a variety of eye problems from looking at a screen for far too long, irritability, headaches, spontaneous translation (happens after long symultaneous interpretation gigs). There's nothing to match AIDS, for sure, but there are plenty of opportunities to get crippled. I am not in any way trying to belittle the plight of exploited porn-stars and prostitutes. Exploitation is terrible. But I agree with the Ayotollah: there is some undeclared bias here due to the sex thing. And I know that there exist (not a majority, but by no means unicorns) people who spend a year or two in the sex business, save up and lie back while they figure out what to do with their lives afterwards. They may discover, even years later, that they had bitten off more than they could chew... but that's not necessarily the case.

I advise you to step back, and reevaluate your position, maybe with a dash of human compassion thrown in. You know, just in case we are talking about real people.

[Verbal Mike]

Well, and chronic carpal tunnel syndrome (because why not work 15 hours a day for a few weeks if I can pull a decent load), chronic back-pain (because buying decent office furniture for the home office somehow tends to slide down the list of priorities), a variety of eye problems from looking at a screen for far too long, irritability, headaches, spontaneous translation (happens after long symultaneous interpretation gigs). There's nothing to match AIDS, for sure, but there are plenty of opportunities to get crippled. I am not in any way trying to belittle the plight of exploited porn-stars and prostitutes. Exploitation is terrible. But I agree with the Ayotollah: there is some undeclared bias here due to the sex thing. And I know that there exist (not a majority, but by no means unicorns) people who spend a year or two in the sex business, save up and lie back while they figure out what to do with their lives afterwards. They may discover, even years later, that they had bitten off more than they could chew... but that's not necessarily the case.

You can get very usable dictation software for peanuts relative to the carpal-tunnel healthcare you save by it (my mother did this) and you can go out and buy ergonomic furniture if you need it. Both are one-time, moderate-price purchases that seriously alleviate the (very real) physical problems you mentioned. No such possibility exists for porn work, AFAIK.

That said:

I advise you to step back, and reevaluate your position, maybe with a dash of human compassion thrown in. You know, just in case we are talking about real people.

THIS.

[Freeky]

So, Holist doesn't do enough translating business today.  His pimp comes by and chokes him out, kicks him around a little, and then rents him out to rough trade for a week.

Yeah, the two jobs are identical.

Absolutely!

Not to mention the diseases you can catch while translating. Move over AIDS! Here comes dry mouth!

Well, and chronic carpal tunnel syndrome (because why not work 15 hours a day for a few weeks if I can pull a decent load), chronic back-pain (because buying decent office furniture for the home office somehow tends to slide down the list of priorities), a variety of eye problems from looking at a screen for far too long, irritability, headaches, spontaneous translation (happens after long symultaneous interpretation gigs). There's nothing to match AIDS, for sure, but there are plenty of opportunities to get crippled. I am not in any way trying to belittle the plight of exploited porn-stars and prostitutes. Exploitation is terrible. But I agree with the Ayotollah: there is some undeclared bias here due to the sex thing. And I know that there exist (not a majority, but by no means unicorns) people who spend a year or two in the sex business, save up and lie back while they figure out what to do with their lives afterwards. They may discover, even years later, that they had bitten off more than they could chew... but that's not necessarily the case.

Oh my God,  you've just described all the health hazards of working in an office in any kind of profession.

POOR FUCKING YOU,  YOU POOR PROSTITUTE.

[Dildo Argentino]

I advise you to step back, and reevaluate your position, maybe with a dash of human compassion thrown in. You know, just in case we are talking about real people.

Okay, thanks for that advice. I don't want it to go that way again.

I am fully aware that brutal exploitation is frequent in the sex industry, both prostitution and porn. I am fully aware that this industry also ties in to slavery, human trafficking. I am not condoning those things at all, I am not saying they are not terrible, because they are. But I don't agree that this is the prevalent model. This is the extreme of exploitation. I think the run-of-the-mill exploitation that does go on (remember, Hungary is a superpower in porn terms, it does go on a lot here, both the post-produced, glitzy and the rough, more perverted varieties) is also disgraceful, shouldn't-happen-at-all-in-an-ideal world sort of thing, but there is a whole scale. And there is also significant self-exploitation. I also think that there is something about the sex-thing that makes this kind of exploitation a special case... but I don't think that has been sufficiently understood ITT.

The thing about being a frontal lobe prostitute cuts both ways: I actually like the fact that I get to decide whether I take every single job or not, and (after a good many years of learning how to do this), I think I am now avoiding the extremes of self-exploitation.

As for what experience, from any pov, I think I have already answered that question.

[Dildo Argentino]

You can get very usable dictation software for peanuts relative to the carpal-tunnel healthcare you save by it (my mother did this) and you can go out and buy ergonomic furniture if you need it. Both are one-time, moderate-price purchases that seriously alleviate the (very real) physical problems you mentioned.

NOT ATTEMPTING TO CONVINCE ANYONE THAT TRANSLATION IS A WORSE JOB THAN WHORING, JUST ANSWERING SOME FRIENDLY ADVICE:

Dictation software: NOT moderately priced by my standards, AND I tried it (dragonspeak, they were the best in the field at the time), didn't work with my accent/language pair.

Ergonomic furniture being moderate priced: you are kidding. Home modding is what I get by on. I can't afford to pay 400 dollars for a chair.

No such possibility exists for porn work, AFAIK.

But it does! The obvious parallel is not doing too much of it, only working with respectful professionals and avoiding the crocodiles that Roger mentioned. He seems to think that this is impossible or well-nigh-impossible. My experience (ex-girlfriend doing porn for about a year in London, other short-term girlfriend actually doing free-lance BDSM prostitution to recover from costly divorce, (now a successful therapist, after the courses she paid for with the money she made). And no, I don't think I just happened to get to meet two unicorns.

[tyrannosaurus vex]

I advise you to step back, and reevaluate your position, maybe with a dash of human compassion thrown in. You know, just in case we are talking about real people.

Okay, thanks for that advice. I don't want it to go that way again.

I am fully aware that brutal exploitation is frequent in the sex industry, both prostitution and porn. I am fully aware that this industry also ties in to slavery, human trafficking. I am not condoning those things at all, I am not saying they are not terrible, because they are. But I don't agree that this is the prevalent model. This is the extreme of exploitation. I think the run-of-the-mill exploitation that does go on (remember, Hungary is a superpower in porn terms, it does go on a lot here, both the post-produced, glitzy and the rough, more perverted varieties) is also disgraceful, shouldn't-happen-at-all-in-an-ideal world sort of thing, but there is a whole scale. And there is also significant self-exploitation. I also think that there is something about the sex-thing that makes this kind of exploitation a special case... but I don't think that has been sufficiently understood ITT.

The thing about being a frontal lobe prostitute cuts both ways: I actually like the fact that I get to decide whether I take every single job or not, and (after a good many years of learning how to do this), I think I am now avoiding the extremes of self-exploitation.

As for what experience, from any pov, I think I have already answered that question.

Right, except working in porn features all the same stressors that your job features - deciding which jobs to do, selling your abilities, aligning yourself with the right people, and taking the right kind of risks. These are equal, sure. But on top of all that, when you work in porn, you also have to have your body used like a cheap toy from Hong Kong. Your body, which is for all intents an purposes you yourself -- your mortal coil -- the very tie that binds you to this plane of existence -- in a very real sense everything you have and, in porn, everything you are. That seems to me like it would hit much closer to home, and be that much more intense, than getting a wrist cramp or pining over writing an uncomfortable kind of propaganda. You can identify with all the business aspects of working as a porn star maybe, but business ain't the half of it.

[Dildo Argentino]

But on top of all that, when you work in porn, you also have to have your body used like a cheap toy from Hong Kong.

Okay, let me try to make my point precisely: I fully agree that this happens a great deal. It results in, firstly, heavily exploitative, and, incidentally, also boring porn (often both at the same time). But I disagree that you have to have your body used like that, and I disagree that it happens practically all the time. With the advance of the internet, many prostitutes have found ways to work for themselves, on their own terms. Some porn companies believe in investing in and protecting talent and not strip-mining it (bad pun, sorry). Incidentally (and this is the honest truth), some years ago I translated for a German guy, called himself a "hacker-hunter", who said that Europol is having a serious problem with pedofile rings as well: at a fairly exclusive conference on internet security for bankers, he claimed that in over half the cases, the pics of nude children found on the computers of twisted old men are manufactured by groups of people who are all minors... so, after a costly operation, there's noone to prosecute on the production side.

What I find somewhat disturbing right now that practically all of this has been said ITT by others. But it did not provoke this reaction.

[tyrannosaurus vex]

But on top of all that, when you work in porn, you also have to have your body used like a cheap toy from Hong Kong.

Okay, let me try to make my point precisely: I fully agree that this happens a great deal. It results in, firstly, heavily exploitative, and, incidentally, also boring porn (often both at the same time). But I disagree that you have to have your body used like that, and I disagree that it happens practically all the time. With the advance of the internet, many prostitutes have found ways to work for themselves, on their own terms. Some porn companies believe in investing in and protecting talent and not strip-mining it (bad pun, sorry). Incidentally (and this is the honest truth), some years ago I translated for a German guy, called himself a "hacker-hunter", who said that Europol is having a serious problem with pedofile rings as well: at a fairly exclusive conference on internet security for bankers, he claimed that in over half the cases, the pics of nude children found on the computers of twisted old men are manufactured by groups of people who are all minors... so, after a costly operation, there's noone to prosecute on the production side.

What I find somewhat disturbing right now that practically all of this has been said ITT by others. But it did not provoke this reaction.

I think it's because it sounds like you're saying a writing career that goes south is more or less equal to a porn career that goes south, which is not true.

[Verbal Mike]

Right, except working in porn features all the same stressors that your job features - deciding which jobs to do, selling your abilities, aligning yourself with the right people, and taking the right kind of risks. These are equal, sure. But on top of all that, when you work in porn, you also have to have your body used like a cheap toy from Hong Kong. Your body, which is for all intents an purposes you yourself -- your mortal coil -- the very tie that binds you to this plane of existence -- in a very real sense everything you have and, in porn, everything you are. That seems to me like it would hit much closer to home, and be that much more intense, than getting a wrist cramp or pining over writing an uncomfortable kind of propaganda. You can identify with all the business aspects of working as a porn star maybe, but business ain't the half of it.

This.

And also this:
You mention social biases regarding sex. They affect the people working in it, not only those discussing it. And the way these biases work, in all cases I'm familiar with, is that they are jarringly unbalanced in their treatment of men and women. In the specific context of mainstream porn, they are at their highest potential: the women are literally selling their body for money and having sex with multiple strangers, opening them up to all sorts of abuse just for the fact of doing what they, while the men are doing the same thing, which perversely puts them in a position of power and envy. And if that imbalance were to come to the fore, and a male performer were to get abusive with his partner, even if "only" on camera, "only" as an act, the female performer is required to act like she's enjoying the shit out of it. At that point the exploitation specific to that line of work meets the normal exploitation involved in all paid work – she has to do her job to have money for her basic needs (including self-realization, which I'm glad to hear you know people who found after working in porn.) And unlike most other professions, there is hardly a single other industry in which she can later sport her hard work on a resume.

I'm not saying – and I don't hear almost anyone here saying, but correct me if I'm wrong – that all porn work is necessarily worse than all other work. It's more that taken as a whole, the reality of porn work is awful in a whole other way, in a significant proportion of cases.

[Dildo Argentino]

But on top of all that, when you work in porn, you also have to have your body used like a cheap toy from Hong Kong.

Okay, let me try to make my point precisely: I fully agree that this happens a great deal. It results in, firstly, heavily exploitative, and, incidentally, also boring porn (often both at the same time). But I disagree that you have to have your body used like that, and I disagree that it happens practically all the time. With the advance of the internet, many prostitutes have found ways to work for themselves, on their own terms. Some porn companies believe in investing in and protecting talent and not strip-mining it (bad pun, sorry). Incidentally (and this is the honest truth), some years ago I translated for a German guy, called himself a "hacker-hunter", who said that Europol is having a serious problem with pedofile rings as well: at a fairly exclusive conference on internet security for bankers, he claimed that in over half the cases, the pics of nude children found on the computers of twisted old men are manufactured by groups of people who are all minors... so, after a costly operation, there's noone to prosecute on the production side.

What I find somewhat disturbing right now that practically all of this has been said ITT by others. But it did not provoke this reaction.

I think it's because it sounds like you're saying a writing career that goes south is more or less equal to a porn career that goes south, which is not true.

Well, I am very sorry, I did not mean to make that impression. I am fully aware that:

1. sex-work careers go south with much greater frequency than translation (and other FLP) careers.

2. sex-work careers can go south spectacularly, in a terrible, awful, soul-destroying manner, and do so with very much greater frequency than FLP careers.

But: I am also saying that FLP careers do go south. And (very clearly much less frequently, but still) they can go spectacularly south, with initial self-exploitation with add-on exploitation and existential pressure leading to accepting a level of stress (and working hours) that most people in jobs with set working hours have no idea about. All the way to suicide, mental illness, destruction of families and social ties, etc.

And I am saying that the reason the sex-worker field is so high-risk is probably to do with the fact that as a culture we are seriously hung-up about sex, meaning that sexually entirely healthy and well-adjusted individuals are few and far between. So I see the solution as two-fold: reform sex-education and attitudes to sex (will take bloody ages, Wilhelm Reich is turning in his grave), and in the meantime, come down on the crocodiles with the full force of the law, as hard as it gets (I'm all in favour of that). But I can imagine a less sexually-hung-up culture still with room for sex-work, which does not inherently need to be exploitative, even if most of it is, right now. (See this for instance: http://www.metafilter.com/119869/I-really-value-that-experience-because-it-gave-me-confidence-to-then-pursue-other-relationships)