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The Porn Princess Rant, Re-Written

Started by The Good Reverend Roger, September 17, 2012, 04:15:46 PM

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The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: A Very Hairy Monkey In An Ill-Fitting Tunic on September 17, 2012, 08:22:56 PM
Quote from: Fidel Castro on September 17, 2012, 07:43:50 PM
Quote from: v3x on September 17, 2012, 07:39:34 PM
So the next question would be

Is it possible to celebrate and publish Human Sexuality in a way that is not degrading to anyone, or are all real depicted sexual images and acts inherently degrading?

As Nigel said, outliers exist.  But they're really rare.

You get a couple that are exhibitionists, for example.  They get a huge boot out of filming themselves in the act and posting it.  Nobody has been exploited.

But what percentage of porn fits that bill?

I am a highly visual person and I masturbate to porn. For personal ethical reasons, the porn I choose is exhibitionist amateur male masturbation video. It's free, and if I'm lucky I can get it directly from the source, eliminating any concerns about it being a product or byproduct of commercial exploitation.

I'm more tactile & olfactory.  Maybe not so much "olfactory" as "helpless in the face of pheremones".  In fact, no actual person in the room with me = no arousal at all.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

This is reminding me that one of the theories I've been developing about the differences in the expression of male and female sexuality in our culture is directly related to how males are also harmed by patriarchy. I have a long way to go on this, but I suspect that men in our culture start using sex for self-soothing at a very early age because many of the methods of self-soothing women rely on are not considered appropriate for men. This compounds any number of problems.
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


Mesozoic Mister Nigel

Quote from: Fidel Castro on September 17, 2012, 08:25:35 PM
Quote from: A Very Hairy Monkey In An Ill-Fitting Tunic on September 17, 2012, 08:22:56 PM
Quote from: Fidel Castro on September 17, 2012, 07:43:50 PM
Quote from: v3x on September 17, 2012, 07:39:34 PM
So the next question would be

Is it possible to celebrate and publish Human Sexuality in a way that is not degrading to anyone, or are all real depicted sexual images and acts inherently degrading?

As Nigel said, outliers exist.  But they're really rare.

You get a couple that are exhibitionists, for example.  They get a huge boot out of filming themselves in the act and posting it.  Nobody has been exploited.

But what percentage of porn fits that bill?

I am a highly visual person and I masturbate to porn. For personal ethical reasons, the porn I choose is exhibitionist amateur male masturbation video. It's free, and if I'm lucky I can get it directly from the source, eliminating any concerns about it being a product or byproduct of commercial exploitation.

I'm more tactile & olfactory.  Maybe not so much "olfactory" as "helpless in the face of pheremones".  In fact, no actual person in the room with me = no arousal at all.

Wow, I wish I was more like that!

I mean, an actual person makes all the difference in the world, but I am very capable of being helplessly tormented by nothing more than my own visual imagination, or a picture of a naked guy.
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


tyrannosaurus vex

Quote from: A Very Hairy Monkey In An Ill-Fitting Tunic on September 17, 2012, 08:32:36 PM
This is reminding me that one of the theories I've been developing about the differences in the expression of male and female sexuality in our culture is directly related to how males are also harmed by patriarchy. I have a long way to go on this, but I suspect that men in our culture start using sex for self-soothing at a very early age because many of the methods of self-soothing women rely on are not considered appropriate for men. This compounds any number of problems.
This is ringing true for me. As an obvious example I have often thought about how nice it might be to go for a day at a spa or something with the massage and the mud bath and all that. It never goes past the idea stage, because I think everyone at a placelike that would think I was there just to hangout around the women. I am also half sure they wouldjust tell me to go away because they don't serve men at all.
Evil and Unfeeling Arse-Flenser From The City of the Damned.

EK WAFFLR

While we are on to this topic.
I recently heard some good stuff about Make Love, Not Porn.
Does anyone here know about it, and if it's a good thing?
"At first I lifted weights.  But then I asked myself, 'why not people?'  Now everyone runs for the fjord when they see me."


Horribly Oscillating Assbasket of Deliciousness
[/b]

Freeky

Quote from: A Very Hairy Monkey In An Ill-Fitting Tunic on September 17, 2012, 08:33:52 PM
Quote from: Fidel Castro on September 17, 2012, 08:25:35 PM
Quote from: A Very Hairy Monkey In An Ill-Fitting Tunic on September 17, 2012, 08:22:56 PM
Quote from: Fidel Castro on September 17, 2012, 07:43:50 PM
Quote from: v3x on September 17, 2012, 07:39:34 PM
So the next question would be

Is it possible to celebrate and publish Human Sexuality in a way that is not degrading to anyone, or are all real depicted sexual images and acts inherently degrading?

As Nigel said, outliers exist.  But they're really rare.

You get a couple that are exhibitionists, for example.  They get a huge boot out of filming themselves in the act and posting it.  Nobody has been exploited.

But what percentage of porn fits that bill?

I am a highly visual person and I masturbate to porn. For personal ethical reasons, the porn I choose is exhibitionist amateur male masturbation video. It's free, and if I'm lucky I can get it directly from the source, eliminating any concerns about it being a product or byproduct of commercial exploitation.

I'm more tactile & olfactory.  Maybe not so much "olfactory" as "helpless in the face of pheremones".  In fact, no actual person in the room with me = no arousal at all.

Wow, I wish I was more like that!

I mean, an actual person makes all the difference in the world, but I am very capable of being helplessly tormented by nothing more than my own visual imagination, or a picture of a naked guy.

I'm the same as Nigel in this case.

Anna Mae Bollocks

Quote from: Freeky Queen of DERP on September 17, 2012, 08:54:59 PM
Quote from: A Very Hairy Monkey In An Ill-Fitting Tunic on September 17, 2012, 08:33:52 PM
Quote from: Fidel Castro on September 17, 2012, 08:25:35 PM
Quote from: A Very Hairy Monkey In An Ill-Fitting Tunic on September 17, 2012, 08:22:56 PM
Quote from: Fidel Castro on September 17, 2012, 07:43:50 PM
Quote from: v3x on September 17, 2012, 07:39:34 PM
So the next question would be

Is it possible to celebrate and publish Human Sexuality in a way that is not degrading to anyone, or are all real depicted sexual images and acts inherently degrading?

As Nigel said, outliers exist.  But they're really rare.

You get a couple that are exhibitionists, for example.  They get a huge boot out of filming themselves in the act and posting it.  Nobody has been exploited.

But what percentage of porn fits that bill?

I am a highly visual person and I masturbate to porn. For personal ethical reasons, the porn I choose is exhibitionist amateur male masturbation video. It's free, and if I'm lucky I can get it directly from the source, eliminating any concerns about it being a product or byproduct of commercial exploitation.

I'm more tactile & olfactory.  Maybe not so much "olfactory" as "helpless in the face of pheremones".  In fact, no actual person in the room with me = no arousal at all.

Wow, I wish I was more like that!

I mean, an actual person makes all the difference in the world, but I am very capable of being helplessly tormented by nothing more than my own visual imagination, or a picture of a naked guy.

I'm the same as Nigel in this case.

All this is just the opposite of some articles I've seen that say men are RILLY RILLY VISUAL and women aren't.

I get a reflex reaction to visual stuff sometimes, but it's like when the cat jumps on your lap and brushes your nipple, the nipple stands up but you don't want to do stuff with the cat.

It's complex for me. I have to be attracted to somebody. I don't necessarily need to be in the room with them, thought can do it, but my head has to be in that space. If I'm not attracted to anybody I don't even think about sex.
Scantily-Clad Inspector of Gigantic and Unnecessary Cashews, Texas Division

tyrannosaurus vex

I don't even know half the shit my head does when it comes to attraction and sex. Where I work for example there are a multitude of attractive women. I appreciate that they are attractive and I even catch myself eyeing their shapes, but I don't gawk at them, and I don't even feel like I'm sexually attracted to them. It's beauty in form, like a classical statue or something. I guess I lack the "dog sees steak" instinct/reaction society tells me I'm supposed to have. Thank god.
Evil and Unfeeling Arse-Flenser From The City of the Damned.

Juana

I've always thought the "dog sees steak" thing was demeaning and insulting.

If there's no emotion, I can't get into it. I find that that's much easier to portray in in fiction (and also it's cruelty free) so I stick with that.

Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on September 17, 2012, 07:15:31 PM
WTF, Garbo?

Not sure what "feminist" porn IS...lesbians? Dom women kicking men around? It's still porn... :x
Feminist porn (and I'm willing to acknowledge Nigel's point on a "kinder master" - I hadn't thought about that, tbh) should be inclusive (all genders, all sexes, all body types, etc.), respectful of the actors and audience, no one should be strung out on drugs, and everyone who is involved should be there because they chose to be there (and there are people who do choose porn because that's what they want to do, although they're practically unicorns). Not because economic pressure made it the best or only option, or other coercion forced them into it.
"I dispose of obsolete meat machines.  Not because I hate them (I do) and not because they deserve it (they do), but because they are in the way and those older ones don't meet emissions codes.  They emit too much.  You don't like them and I don't like them, so spare me the hysteria."

The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: Secret Agent GARBO on September 17, 2012, 09:43:16 PM
I've always thought the "dog sees steak" thing was demeaning and insulting.

Yes, I agree...Men are more complex than dogs.

QuoteFeminist porn (and I'm willing to acknowledge Nigel's point on a "kinder master" - I hadn't thought about that, tbh) should be inclusive (all genders, all sexes, all body types, etc.), respectful of the actors and audience, no one should be strung out on drugs, and everyone who is involved should be there because they chose to be there (and there are people who do choose porn because that's what they want to do, although they're practically unicorns). Not because economic pressure made it the best or only option, or other coercion forced them into it.

And how do we know "feminist porn" producers follow these guidelines?
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Anna Mae Bollocks

Quote from: v3x on September 17, 2012, 09:26:38 PM
I don't even know half the shit my head does when it comes to attraction and sex. Where I work for example there are a multitude of attractive women. I appreciate that they are attractive and I even catch myself eyeing their shapes, but I don't gawk at them, and I don't even feel like I'm sexually attracted to them. It's beauty in form, like a classical statue or something. I guess I lack the "dog sees steak" instinct/reaction society tells me I'm supposed to have. Thank god.

Agree, admiration =/= attraction/horniness.
A lot of guys look good, maybe I'm repressing something on some level (for good reason, like survival) but that alone doesn't get me attracted. I don't know enough about them. Or I do, and they've been ruled out for some reason. Hell, I look at women, but it's more "I wonder if I could get my shit to look like that?" and working out the clothing/makeup/exericise routine. Or just thinking she'd be great in a certain style of painting or photo.
Scantily-Clad Inspector of Gigantic and Unnecessary Cashews, Texas Division

Anna Mae Bollocks

Quote from: Secret Agent GARBO on September 17, 2012, 09:43:16 PM
I've always thought the "dog sees steak" thing was demeaning and insulting.

If there's no emotion, I can't get into it. I find that that's much easier to portray in in fiction (and also it's cruelty free) so I stick with that.

Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on September 17, 2012, 07:15:31 PM
WTF, Garbo?

Not sure what "feminist" porn IS...lesbians? Dom women kicking men around? It's still porn... :x
Feminist porn (and I'm willing to acknowledge Nigel's point on a "kinder master" - I hadn't thought about that, tbh) should be inclusive (all genders, all sexes, all body types, etc.), respectful of the actors and audience, no one should be strung out on drugs, and everyone who is involved should be there because they chose to be there (and there are people who do choose porn because that's what they want to do, although they're practically unicorns). Not because economic pressure made it the best or only option, or other coercion forced them into it.

I'd be interested to know how they rule out people who are doing it out of economic necessity. "Sign this paper that says you weren't coerced or financilly desperate, and won't say at any point that you were, if you want to get paid"?
Scantily-Clad Inspector of Gigantic and Unnecessary Cashews, Texas Division

The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on September 17, 2012, 09:49:22 PM
Quote from: v3x on September 17, 2012, 09:26:38 PM
I don't even know half the shit my head does when it comes to attraction and sex. Where I work for example there are a multitude of attractive women. I appreciate that they are attractive and I even catch myself eyeing their shapes, but I don't gawk at them, and I don't even feel like I'm sexually attracted to them. It's beauty in form, like a classical statue or something. I guess I lack the "dog sees steak" instinct/reaction society tells me I'm supposed to have. Thank god.

Agree, admiration =/= attraction/horniness.
A lot of guys look good, maybe I'm repressing something on some level (for good reason, like survival) but that alone doesn't get me attracted. I don't know enough about them. Or I do, and they've been ruled out for some reason. Hell, I look at women, but it's more "I wonder if I could get my shit to look like that?" and working out the clothing/makeup/exericise routine. Or just thinking she'd be great in a certain style of painting or photo.

I can look at some women and appreciate that they're pretty.  There's no lust, just an admiration for a pleasing form.

On the other hand, a certain type of woman can walk behind me at the mall or whatever, I don't even SEE her, and BAM!  Mr Happy is wondering where the party's at.

" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Juana

Quote from: Fidel Castro on September 17, 2012, 09:46:11 PM
QuoteFeminist porn (and I'm willing to acknowledge Nigel's point on a "kinder master" - I hadn't thought about that, tbh) should be inclusive (all genders, all sexes, all body types, etc.), respectful of the actors and audience, no one should be strung out on drugs, and everyone who is involved should be there because they chose to be there (and there are people who do choose porn because that's what they want to do, although they're practically unicorns). Not because economic pressure made it the best or only option, or other coercion forced them into it.

And how do we know "feminist porn" producers follow these guidelines?
The last part, about coercion, is harder to pin down (which is bad enough I'm having second thoughts about the whole deal), but the way the film treats the actors is obvious (particularly women and queers, who are degraded to a nauseating degree in traditional porn), inclusivity is obvious, and I'm pretty sure you can tell when someone's strung out.
"I dispose of obsolete meat machines.  Not because I hate them (I do) and not because they deserve it (they do), but because they are in the way and those older ones don't meet emissions codes.  They emit too much.  You don't like them and I don't like them, so spare me the hysteria."

tyrannosaurus vex

It seems to me that "feminist porn" in the best possible sense is still tragic, because the only healthy thing it satisfies is a gaping hole in human sexual expression that only exists because of fucked up puritanical social taboos that say sex is dirty and should be something to hide. In a better society, everything a person might gain from "feminist porn" would be more easily gained from real human interaction, through a less restrictive cultural definition of sexuality.

As it is now, I can't help but wonder if formulating an "ethically acceptable" form of pornography isn't actually counterproductive to forming that kind of culture, because it allows a person to engage in "cleaner" pornography but completely avoid the question of why pornography is necessary at all.
Evil and Unfeeling Arse-Flenser From The City of the Damned.