The Porn Princess Rant, Re-Written

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

Sometimes people just want to get off without all the mumbo jumbo that comes with interacting with another person.  I'm all behind the idea that people shouldn't be subjugated into situations they don't want to be in, but I will not get behind the idea that pornography in and of itself is wrong.

Erotic art goes back to cave drawings, are you considering all of that inherently wrong?  We haven't brought up gay porn, which I doubt anyone would seriously argue exploits anyone, unless they were vastly out of touch with the genre.  Also wrong?

Not throwing down the gauntlet, just trying to comprehend (and for the record, I'm not in favor of outlawing porn).

People can "get off without all the mumbo jumbo that comes with interacting with another person" by simply masturbating, not sure why porn is necessary for that. 

Erotic art isn't porn.

I know next to nothing about gay porn, so I'm staying out of that one.

Of course erotic art is porn.  And when did "necessary" come into it?  Popcorn isn't necessary to watch a movie, but it's nice.

Art is paint, or ink, nobody had to perform anything. I guess technically you're right, "Hentai porn" is porn, but the general usage refers to real people.

Not sure I would call Hentai "art", though.  But that's subjective.

And popcorn is nice, but if somebody had to get bukaki-ed to make my popcorn, I'd pass.

[hooplala]

Sometimes people just want to get off without all the mumbo jumbo that comes with interacting with another person.  I'm all behind the idea that people shouldn't be subjugated into situations they don't want to be in, but I will not get behind the idea that pornography in and of itself is wrong.

Erotic art goes back to cave drawings, are you considering all of that inherently wrong?  We haven't brought up gay porn, which I doubt anyone would seriously argue exploits anyone, unless they were vastly out of touch with the genre.  Also wrong?

Not throwing down the gauntlet, just trying to comprehend (and for the record, I'm not in favor of outlawing porn).

People can "get off without all the mumbo jumbo that comes with interacting with another person" by simply masturbating, not sure why porn is necessary for that. 

Erotic art isn't porn.

I know next to nothing about gay porn, so I'm staying out of that one.

Of course erotic art is porn.  And when did "necessary" come into it?  Popcorn isn't necessary to watch a movie, but it's nice.

Art is paint, or ink, nobody had to perform anything. I guess technically you're right, "Hentai porn" is porn, but the general usage refers to real people.

Not sure I would call Hentai "art", though.  But that's subjective.

And popcorn is nice, but if somebody had to get bukaki-ed to make my popcorn, I'd pass.

Well that's what I'm talking about - taking the "victim" out of the supposed porn.  So, take a Cherry Poptart comic instead (google if you don't know what it is, but warning NSFW)... it's pen and ink, but its definitely porn.  Is someone going to tell me this is wrong?  If so, we heartily disagree with one another.

[tyrannosaurus vex]

Sometimes people just want to get off without all the mumbo jumbo that comes with interacting with another person.  I'm all behind the idea that people shouldn't be subjugated into situations they don't want to be in, but I will not get behind the idea that pornography in and of itself is wrong.

Erotic art goes back to cave drawings, are you considering all of that inherently wrong?  We haven't brought up gay porn, which I doubt anyone would seriously argue exploits anyone, unless they were vastly out of touch with the genre.  Also wrong?

This is all true and I'm having a hard time adequately expressing what I my point was. It isn't that porn is "wrong," though. I just think that modern porn, whether it's exploitative or purely consensual, and whether it's for profit or for fun, is a "secret habit" that people generally use to satisfy sexual frustrations instead of enhance sexual experiences. Those frustrations are the problem, as symptoms of an unhealthy puritanism. It isn't that porn is to blame or some kind of scourge that should be eliminated, just that it's a less than adequate solution to society's sexual hang-ups, and potentially damaging just because it generally doesn't serve to eliminate the root problem, but to help people avoid solving it.

If that makes sense.

[hooplala]

Sometimes people just want to get off without all the mumbo jumbo that comes with interacting with another person.  I'm all behind the idea that people shouldn't be subjugated into situations they don't want to be in, but I will not get behind the idea that pornography in and of itself is wrong.

Erotic art goes back to cave drawings, are you considering all of that inherently wrong?  We haven't brought up gay porn, which I doubt anyone would seriously argue exploits anyone, unless they were vastly out of touch with the genre.  Also wrong?

This is all true and I'm having a hard time adequately expressing what I my point was. It isn't that porn is "wrong," though. I just think that modern porn, whether it's exploitative or purely consensual, and whether it's for profit or for fun, is a "secret habit" that people generally use to satisfy sexual frustrations instead of enhance sexual experiences. Those frustrations are the problem, as symptoms of an unhealthy puritanism. It isn't that porn is to blame or some kind of scourge that should be eliminated, just that it's a less than adequate solution to society's sexual hang-ups, and potentially damaging just because it generally doesn't serve to eliminate the root problem, but to help people avoid solving it.

If that makes sense.

Alright, I think I can get behind that.

[tyrannosaurus vex]

Sometimes people just want to get off without all the mumbo jumbo that comes with interacting with another person.  I'm all behind the idea that people shouldn't be subjugated into situations they don't want to be in, but I will not get behind the idea that pornography in and of itself is wrong.

Erotic art goes back to cave drawings, are you considering all of that inherently wrong?  We haven't brought up gay porn, which I doubt anyone would seriously argue exploits anyone, unless they were vastly out of touch with the genre.  Also wrong?

This is all true and I'm having a hard time adequately expressing what I my point was. It isn't that porn is "wrong," though. I just think that modern porn, whether it's exploitative or purely consensual, and whether it's for profit or for fun, is a "secret habit" that people generally use to satisfy sexual frustrations instead of enhance sexual experiences. Those frustrations are the problem, as symptoms of an unhealthy puritanism. It isn't that porn is to blame or some kind of scourge that should be eliminated, just that it's a less than adequate solution to society's sexual hang-ups, and potentially damaging just because it generally doesn't serve to eliminate the root problem, but to help people avoid solving it.

If that makes sense.

Alright, I think I can get behind that.

What an unfortunate phrase to use in a thread about porn.

[hooplala]

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

Sometimes people just want to get off without all the mumbo jumbo that comes with interacting with another person.  I'm all behind the idea that people shouldn't be subjugated into situations they don't want to be in, but I will not get behind the idea that pornography in and of itself is wrong.

Erotic art goes back to cave drawings, are you considering all of that inherently wrong?  We haven't brought up gay porn, which I doubt anyone would seriously argue exploits anyone, unless they were vastly out of touch with the genre.  Also wrong?

Not throwing down the gauntlet, just trying to comprehend (and for the record, I'm not in favor of outlawing porn).

People can "get off without all the mumbo jumbo that comes with interacting with another person" by simply masturbating, not sure why porn is necessary for that. 

Erotic art isn't porn.

I know next to nothing about gay porn, so I'm staying out of that one.

Of course erotic art is porn.  And when did "necessary" come into it?  Popcorn isn't necessary to watch a movie, but it's nice.

Art is paint, or ink, nobody had to perform anything. I guess technically you're right, "Hentai porn" is porn, but the general usage refers to real people.

Not sure I would call Hentai "art", though.  But that's subjective.

And popcorn is nice, but if somebody had to get bukaki-ed to make my popcorn, I'd pass.

Well that's what I'm talking about - taking the "victim" out of the supposed porn.  So, take a Cherry Poptart comic instead (google if you don't know what it is, but warning NSFW)... it's pen and ink, but its definitely porn.  Is someone going to tell me this is wrong?  If so, we heartily disagree with one another.

We're on the same page, then. And yeah, I know Cherry Poptart. Legendary stuff! 

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Sometimes people just want to get off without all the mumbo jumbo that comes with interacting with another person.  I'm all behind the idea that people shouldn't be subjugated into situations they don't want to be in, but I will not get behind the idea that pornography in and of itself is wrong.

Erotic art goes back to cave drawings, are you considering all of that inherently wrong?  We haven't brought up gay porn, which I doubt anyone would seriously argue exploits anyone, unless they were vastly out of touch with the genre.  Also wrong?

This is all true and I'm having a hard time adequately expressing what I my point was. It isn't that porn is "wrong," though. I just think that modern porn, whether it's exploitative or purely consensual, and whether it's for profit or for fun, is a "secret habit" that people generally use to satisfy sexual frustrations instead of enhance sexual experiences. Those frustrations are the problem, as symptoms of an unhealthy puritanism. It isn't that porn is to blame or some kind of scourge that should be eliminated, just that it's a less than adequate solution to society's sexual hang-ups, and potentially damaging just because it generally doesn't serve to eliminate the root problem, but to help people avoid solving it.

If that makes sense.

Yeah, it makes perfect sense, and I think I agree.

[hooplala]

[Faust]

We haven't brought up gay porn, which I doubt anyone would seriously argue exploits anyone, unless they were vastly out of touch with the genre.  Also wrong?

Really? I remember the Louis Theroux documentary about the guys in porn and how a lot of the guys in the gay porn business are only there because of the pay, the guy he was talking to was deeply disturbed by any questions on his sexuality, he solidly affirmed he was straight although that hardly stands for much if he is getting fucked up the ass by some guy every other day for work.

[Pope Pixie Pickle]

I wills state that this is the last time I'll ever do this for those 2 people.

Pixie gets a pass, of course, on account of not being here.

I've seen it, and thanks for reposting... I will be going through the thread and responding as the urge takes me.

[Pope Pixie Pickle]

Certain subgenres of erotica, because they don't use actual people. The rest of it - photography, film, etc. - I don't know enough to say whether or not there's porn princesses in there.

Let me clarify that by "porn", I don't mean images of people, but rather movies, pics, etc of people engaging in some form of sex.

Playboy magazine is fairly harmless stuff, and seems to be marketed as educational materials for 16 year olds.  The most they're guilty of is setting an impossible standard with photoshop.

I'm talking about porn movies, which are an entirely different ballgame.

Then see Nigel's comment, although I'd add the feminist porn companies, the few of them that do exist.

As far as I'm aware "feminist porn" is both an oxymoron and a marketing gimmick.

There is "less exploitative porn" but that's still in the "kinder master" territory as far as I'm concerned.

SO MUCH THIS! I mean there are Unicorn-type outliers in the porn/exploitation spectrum, but you can never be sure, so I never use the stuff any more. 

[Pope Pixie Pickle]

From Feministe:

Feminist porn is out there. In my opinion, feminist porn represents a diverse cross-section of people and is woman-friendly, queer-friendly, open to many interpretations of beauty, and is, at best, political and woman-owned.

I'll expand, if you want, when I'm not in class.

The author falls into the common trap of conflating defending the rights of sex workers with celebrating female sexuality.

Long story short is that I became passionate about the rights of sex workers and people that work in the sex/adult industry and began a more intelligent and articulate study of why I felt so compelled to defend pornography, prostitution, women's sexual pleasure, and my own sexual desires.

It really, really disturbs me when people group things like pornography, prostitution, and women's sexuality together, as if they are about the same things.

Yep. it's probably a assload better than mainstream porn, I think I looked into a queer porn (real lesbians doing real lesbians that allegedly were in relationships with each other) called the Crash Pad series, back when I desperately wanted to attempt ethical fapping materials, but I didn't have the money to pay for the site... If you check out Violet Blue's blog there was some controversy about the Feminist Porn Awards (not concerning the Crash Pad series) the last go round...

I generally treat feminist porn as an oxymoron, unicorn, or pipe dream... If I could get it, I would love to see people who are genuinely into each other doing it from an Enthusiastic Consent model of sex, with no scripts, discussions of boundaries beforehand (especially if it was BDSM stuffs), safewords, ect.. I'd see that as educational rather than porn really, although it would be hella hawt.  It would mean no faking it, no wincing at the screen and showing how to do buttsex properly without tearing and using a rubber, barrier methods for ALL THE THINGS ALL THE TIME!

The main thing I am really into kink wise I can't even find written erotica for... Temperature play is never on the list.

If I want pron I'll write it for myself, because of this.  It's hawt and has the added bonus of being able to share fantasies with your partner... I'd consider filming my own with me in it, but I don't think I'd do it without a LEGAL CONTRACT that anything filmed would be disposed of at the end up a relationship and NEVAR end up online.... It was bad enough retrieving the polaroids when my bf died when I was 21..

[Pope Pixie Pickle]

So the next question would be

Is it possible to celebrate and publish Human Sexuality in a way that is not degrading to anyone, or are all real depicted sexual images and acts inherently degrading?

The educational model I made a case for would totally stand up IMHO. You'd have to have a fuckton of prelude building up to the sexytiems though, and I don't think it would really get made, which is sad.

[Pope Pixie Pickle]

So the next question would be

Is it possible to celebrate and publish Human Sexuality in a way that is not degrading to anyone, or are all real depicted sexual images and acts inherently degrading?

As Nigel said, outliers exist.  But they're really rare.

You get a couple that are exhibitionists, for example.  They get a huge boot out of filming themselves in the act and posting it.  Nobody has been exploited.

But what percentage of porn fits that bill?

I am a highly visual person and I masturbate to porn. For personal ethical reasons, the porn I choose is exhibitionist amateur male masturbation video. It's free, and if I'm lucky I can get it directly from the source, eliminating any concerns about it being a product or byproduct of commercial exploitation.

I'm more tactile & olfactory.  Maybe not so much "olfactory" as "helpless in the face of pheremones".  In fact, no actual person in the room with me = no arousal at all.

Wow, I wish I was more like that!

I mean, an actual person makes all the difference in the world, but I am very capable of being helplessly tormented by nothing more than my own visual imagination, or a picture of a naked guy.

I have to have an intellectual connection with someone these days. Smell and emotions have a part to play as well, but if someone can take me round an art gallery and have a decent conversation about Art History I'm totally there....