Wage Slavery

[P3nT4gR4m]

Most prohibition creates at least as many problems as it solves because prohibition does not tackle demand, it merely shifts responsibility for supply into the hands of criminals. Organised crime by it's very nature fucks the market. It degrades the product and annihilates trading standards. Disputes are almost always settled violently, it's a pretty shitty state of affairs. That's before you even factor in the cost of enforcement, which has no ceiling and depends entirely on how much piss you want to aim into the wind.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Nigel; Really sorry if you addressed this already but it's midnight and there's 24 pages of conversation I haven't read, which, from a glance, look kind of painful to read.

I'm just really curious; you said your opinions have changed a lot in regards to sex work and said that that came from conversations here and your own research. I'm wondering what they changed FROM, what they changed TO, and what was the compelling feature that you came across that made that change happen?

When I came here, I believed that sex work can be empowering. I thought that sex work is simply providing a service that fills a need, and that it can be provided as a safe, sane, consensual exchange between equals.

Now, I believe that while under ideal circumstances the above would be true, those ideal circumstances are so unlikely as to contribute negligibly to the overall reality of sex work, and that sex work as it exists in reality contributes negatively to human equality, particularly gender-based human equality. The compelling feature that I came across, or rather which came into focus for me, was isolating the concept of the commodity being sold, and what it is sold for. The commodity is human bodies, and it is sold for physical gratification... consumption, after a fashion. It is peddled like a consumer good. I think this is harmful both to the consumer and to the consumed.

Should it be illegal?

I don't think pornography should be illegal, because I think that legislating what consenting adults do with their bodies as a form of expression is more wrong.

I am torn on prostitution. I don't think prostitution itself should ever be a crime, because that punishes the prostitute, compounding the problem rather than solving it. I think that perhaps rather than criminalizing it, it should be legalized and regulated, and in fact I think that the strongest laws out there should be "Madam laws", which require anyone acting as a manager to be credentialed and licensed, and regulate madam fees. It should be an intensive training (perhaps a graduate program) and an expensive license, and there should also be a prostitution tax which goes into a fund for therapy and education for prostitutes and former prostitutes. Practicing as a madam without a license should be a big, big crime, as should "black market" prostitution, which should simply be considered human trafficking. Further, all prostitutes should need to maintain a state-issued license, and in order to maintain it they would undergo regular STD testing. In order to help minimize human trafficking, in order to obtain a license they must be citizens.

[P3nT4gR4m]

What's anyone's take on the Amsterdam situation? I know it's legal or decriminalised or something over there. How close is it to the scenario Nigel just described? Do prostitutes have better/longer lives?

[Don Coyote]

Nigel; Really sorry if you addressed this already but it's midnight and there's 24 pages of conversation I haven't read, which, from a glance, look kind of painful to read.

I'm just really curious; you said your opinions have changed a lot in regards to sex work and said that that came from conversations here and your own research. I'm wondering what they changed FROM, what they changed TO, and what was the compelling feature that you came across that made that change happen?

When I came here, I believed that sex work can be empowering. I thought that sex work is simply providing a service that fills a need, and that it can be provided as a safe, sane, consensual exchange between equals.

Now, I believe that while under ideal circumstances the above would be true, those ideal circumstances are so unlikely as to contribute negligibly to the overall reality of sex work, and that sex work as it exists in reality contributes negatively to human equality, particularly gender-based human equality. The compelling feature that I came across, or rather which came into focus for me, was isolating the concept of the commodity being sold, and what it is sold for. The commodity is human bodies, and it is sold for physical gratification... consumption, after a fashion. It is peddled like a consumer good. I think this is harmful both to the consumer and to the consumed.

Should it be illegal?

I don't think pornography should be illegal, because I think that legislating what consenting adults do with their bodies as a form of expression is more wrong.

I am torn on prostitution. I don't think prostitution itself should ever be a crime, because that punishes the prostitute, compounding the problem rather than solving it. I think that perhaps rather than criminalizing it, it should be legalized and regulated, and in fact I think that the strongest laws out there should be "Madam laws", which require anyone acting as a manager to be credentialed and licensed, and regulate madam fees. It should be an intensive training (perhaps a graduate program) and an expensive license, and there should also be a prostitution tax which goes into a fund for therapy and education for prostitutes and former prostitutes. Practicing as a madam without a license should be a big, big crime, as should "black market" prostitution, which should simply be considered human trafficking. Further, all prostitutes should need to maintain a state-issued license, and in order to maintain it they would undergo regular STD testing. In order to help minimize human trafficking, in order to obtain a license they must be citizens.

"I got a double bachelors in sociology and pimpology with a masters in whorology."

[P3nT4gR4m]

I failed my big collared shirts module

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

Nigel; Really sorry if you addressed this already but it's midnight and there's 24 pages of conversation I haven't read, which, from a glance, look kind of painful to read.

I'm just really curious; you said your opinions have changed a lot in regards to sex work and said that that came from conversations here and your own research. I'm wondering what they changed FROM, what they changed TO, and what was the compelling feature that you came across that made that change happen?

When I came here, I believed that sex work can be empowering. I thought that sex work is simply providing a service that fills a need, and that it can be provided as a safe, sane, consensual exchange between equals.

Now, I believe that while under ideal circumstances the above would be true, those ideal circumstances are so unlikely as to contribute negligibly to the overall reality of sex work, and that sex work as it exists in reality contributes negatively to human equality, particularly gender-based human equality. The compelling feature that I came across, or rather which came into focus for me, was isolating the concept of the commodity being sold, and what it is sold for. The commodity is human bodies, and it is sold for physical gratification... consumption, after a fashion. It is peddled like a consumer good. I think this is harmful both to the consumer and to the consumed.

Should it be illegal?

I don't think pornography should be illegal, because I think that legislating what consenting adults do with their bodies as a form of expression is more wrong.

I am torn on prostitution. I don't think prostitution itself should ever be a crime, because that punishes the prostitute, compounding the problem rather than solving it. I think that perhaps rather than criminalizing it, it should be legalized and regulated, and in fact I think that the strongest laws out there should be "Madam laws", which require anyone acting as a manager to be credentialed and licensed, and regulate madam fees. It should be an intensive training (perhaps a graduate program) and an expensive license, and there should also be a prostitution tax which goes into a fund for therapy and education for prostitutes and former prostitutes. Practicing as a madam without a license should be a big, big crime, as should "black market" prostitution, which should simply be considered human trafficking. Further, all prostitutes should need to maintain a state-issued license, and in order to maintain it they would undergo regular STD testing. In order to help minimize human trafficking, in order to obtain a license they must be citizens.

"I got a double bachelors in sociology and pimpology with a masters in whorology."

I like your idea, Nigel! But what about the most desperate people who can't obtain a license because they aren't citizens, can't afford the fees, or whatever? Maybe just a better safety net in place for everybody would fix that?

[P3nT4gR4m]

The real question in my mind is, given that prostitution was legal and safe and clean and nice, with benefits, how many people would actually choose it as a career? Maybe more than I think?

We're dealing with two stereotypes here - the abused basket case who gets strung out on meth and pimped into it and Julia f'kin Roberts.

I can't wrap my head around the idea of some kid, at 12 or 13 years telling their careers advisor that they know it's going to take a lot of hard work but what they really want to be, when they leave university, is a cum dump for fat, balding middle aged creeps.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

The real question in my mind is, given that prostitution was legal and safe and clean and nice, with benefits, how many people would actually choose it as a career? Maybe more than I think?

We're dealing with two stereotypes here - the abused basket case who gets strung out on meth and pimped into it and Julia f'kin Roberts.

I can't wrap my head around the idea of some kid, at 12 or 13 years telling their careers advisor that they know it's going to take a lot of hard work but what they really want to be, when they leave university, is a cum dump for fat, balding middle aged creeps.

THIS

[The Good Reverend Roger]

The real question in my mind is, given that prostitution was legal and safe and clean and nice, with benefits, how many people would actually choose it as a career? Maybe more than I think?

We're dealing with two stereotypes here - the abused basket case who gets strung out on meth and pimped into it and Julia f'kin Roberts.

I can't wrap my head around the idea of some kid, at 12 or 13 years telling their careers advisor that they know it's going to take a lot of hard work but what they really want to be, when they leave university, is a cum dump for fat, balding middle aged creeps.

See, now, you're just shitting all over the beliefs of those here who believe in Happy Hookers who do it because it's all empowering and shit.

[Juana]

I do believe there are people who do that, but they are, by far, the exception rather than the rule. Most hookers do it because they don't have any other options.


I really like Nigel's idea, mostly. The problem with a license, though, is that not everyone is going to come forward to get one because of worries about deported, if they're an undocumented immigrant, or arrested if they've been charged with prostitution before. Also, how much are states going to be allowed to charge? I could see some states, especially those that are more puritan than others, charging an arm and a leg and it's not like these people are going into hooking with a lot of money in their pockets to begin with.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I do believe there are people who do that, but they are, by far, the exception rather than the rule.

I believe that sometimes you hear hoof-beats, and a horse comes down the road.

I believe that sometimes you hear hoof-beats, and a zebra comes down the road.

I believe that sometimes you hear hoof-beats, and a unicorn comes down the road, being ridden by pink monkeys and baby dolphins in specially-made saddlebags.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

People believe in Happy Hookers for the same reason one man at random on a firing squad is given a rifle with a blank in it instead of a live cartridge.

[Juana]

Please note the key words, "by far, the exception." They're a zebra.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Please note the key words, "by far, the exception." They're a zebra.

In my rather limited experience, they're one of the baby dolphins on the unicorn.

[LMNO]

So long as we're not equating the entire sex industry to prostitution, I can agree.