Wage Slavery

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Oooh! You can get the paperback used for a penny on Amazon! http://www.amazon.com/Daughters-Sons-Experience-Non-Sexist-Childraising/dp/0631138854

Buying this.

Good... I thought about it, but realized it would be a waste because my reading load is already more than I can keep up with and it might take me years to get to it.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I don't have a link; it's referenced in chapter 4 of "Introduction to Sociology" by Giddens, Dunier, Applebaum, and Carr, and if I recall it's part of Statham's 1986 study of a group of parents consciously attempting nonsexist childrearing.

Jesus, where would you start?  I mean, given that in that day and age, the people raising the kids still probably had a lot of baggage of their own.  When I was a kid, I took feminism as a GIVEN, but I had no fucking idea at all that half of EVERYTHING around me was geared to reinforce gender roles...And as evidenced by the recent threads, I STILL haven't got even 10% of it down.

Children's media has improved slightly since then, but unfortunately, not a whole lot. I'd love it if someone would do an analysis (fuck, maybe I'll do it, where's my project notebook) of current kids' media for the ratios of male to female characters, and also look at the roles the characters enact; particularly whether there are males enacting traditional female roles, because it seems that while our society has progressed to the point where depicting women as police officers and doctors and firefighters is accepted, depicting men as primary caregivers or nurturers is still quite rare, unless as a fulcrum for comedic plot development.

In the 80s, there were several sitcoms (Charles in Charge, etc) where the idea of a man in the home raising kids WAS the "bit".  No jokes were written; they were not necessary.

They also had nice, neat slots for elderly people, too (they were interchangeable with smartass, precocious 7 year olds in the formula).

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I don't have a link; it's referenced in chapter 4 of "Introduction to Sociology" by Giddens, Dunier, Applebaum, and Carr, and if I recall it's part of Statham's 1986 study of a group of parents consciously attempting nonsexist childrearing.

Jesus, where would you start?  I mean, given that in that day and age, the people raising the kids still probably had a lot of baggage of their own.  When I was a kid, I took feminism as a GIVEN, but I had no fucking idea at all that half of EVERYTHING around me was geared to reinforce gender roles...And as evidenced by the recent threads, I STILL haven't got even 10% of it down.

Children's media has improved slightly since then, but unfortunately, not a whole lot. I'd love it if someone would do an analysis (fuck, maybe I'll do it, where's my project notebook) of current kids' media for the ratios of male to female characters, and also look at the roles the characters enact; particularly whether there are males enacting traditional female roles, because it seems that while our society has progressed to the point where depicting women as police officers and doctors and firefighters is accepted, depicting men as primary caregivers or nurturers is still quite rare, unless as a fulcrum for comedic plot development.

In the 80s, there were several sitcoms (Charles in Charge, etc) where the idea of a man in the home raising kids WAS the "bit".  No jokes were written; they were not necessary.

They also had nice, neat slots for elderly people, too (they were interchangeable with smartass, precocious 7 year olds in the formula).

Oh god, I remember that. Another very similar 1980's sitcom premise was "Divorced Dad With Custody", because what could be funnier than a man actually raising his own children? Ho ho ho! So improbable!

[Verbal Mike]

Interestingly, media representation is more about presenting an idealized form of social norms in order to maintain the status quo than about presenting reality.

Obviously, I'd think.  Their owners have a vested interest in the status quo, and in pleasing fairy tales about how things are.

While I'm sure that's a significant factor, I also think a part of the explanation is something far more boring: if what you propose to produce is too unusual, the media people tasked with okaying it either won't get it, or will feel it's too weird.

And there's this thing Chomsky talked about in the documentary "Manufacturing Consent" (no idea what the overlap is with the book of the same title) – that (commerical, American) television is so fast-paced that you basically don't have the time to say anything new; if you can't package an idea in a soundbite comprised of familiar words and ideas, you're going to get interrupted or edited, because introducing a new thought requires a bit of thought.

That probably applies to the process behind making TV as well – I take it that mainstream media is a very fast-paced business, and if you sit down with some execs and start trying to explain why they should make your thing despite its unconventional gender roles, there's a pretty good chance you're gonna get interrupted, and they might never get it.

This all ties in, for me, with the binary choice between conformity and marginalization. Creatively repackaged status quo is just easier to get produced, not only because of the interests of those who own the means of production, but also because people can have a very negative reaction to nonconformism – especially when they have to keep in mind what other people will think, which media execs always, always do.

[East Coast Hustle]

I don't have a link; it's referenced in chapter 4 of "Introduction to Sociology" by Giddens, Dunier, Applebaum, and Carr, and if I recall it's part of Statham's 1986 study of a group of parents consciously attempting nonsexist childrearing.

Jesus, where would you start?  I mean, given that in that day and age, the people raising the kids still probably had a lot of baggage of their own.  When I was a kid, I took feminism as a GIVEN, but I had no fucking idea at all that half of EVERYTHING around me was geared to reinforce gender roles...And as evidenced by the recent threads, I STILL haven't got even 10% of it down.

Children's media has improved slightly since then, but unfortunately, not a whole lot. I'd love it if someone would do an analysis (fuck, maybe I'll do it, where's my project notebook) of current kids' media for the ratios of male to female characters, and also look at the roles the characters enact; particularly whether there are males enacting traditional female roles, because it seems that while our society has progressed to the point where depicting women as police officers and doctors and firefighters is accepted, depicting men as primary caregivers or nurturers is still quite rare, unless as a fulcrum for comedic plot development.

In the 80s, there were several sitcoms (Charles in Charge, etc) where the idea of a man in the home raising kids WAS the "bit".  No jokes were written; they were not necessary.

They also had nice, neat slots for elderly people, too (they were interchangeable with smartass, precocious 7 year olds in the formula).

Oh god, I remember that. Another very similar 1980's sitcom premise was "Divorced Dad With Custody", because what could be funnier than a man actually raising his own children? Ho ho ho! So improbable!

When I was a little kid, I actually got made fun of by the other kids at school for having divorced parents and being mostly raised by my dad.

I also got made fun of because we only rented our house, so I clearly lived in a town full of assholes at the time, but still. The divorced dad raising a kid thing was not only uncommon (or at least not commonly discussed in polite society) but such a break from the social norm that it was grounds for being socially ostracized.

[P3nT4gR4m]

I don't have a link; it's referenced in chapter 4 of "Introduction to Sociology" by Giddens, Dunier, Applebaum, and Carr, and if I recall it's part of Statham's 1986 study of a group of parents consciously attempting nonsexist childrearing.

Jesus, where would you start?  I mean, given that in that day and age, the people raising the kids still probably had a lot of baggage of their own.  When I was a kid, I took feminism as a GIVEN, but I had no fucking idea at all that half of EVERYTHING around me was geared to reinforce gender roles...And as evidenced by the recent threads, I STILL haven't got even 10% of it down.

Children's media has improved slightly since then, but unfortunately, not a whole lot. I'd love it if someone would do an analysis (fuck, maybe I'll do it, where's my project notebook) of current kids' media for the ratios of male to female characters, and also look at the roles the characters enact; particularly whether there are males enacting traditional female roles, because it seems that while our society has progressed to the point where depicting women as police officers and doctors and firefighters is accepted, depicting men as primary caregivers or nurturers is still quite rare, unless as a fulcrum for comedic plot development.

In the 80s, there were several sitcoms (Charles in Charge, etc) where the idea of a man in the home raising kids WAS the "bit".  No jokes were written; they were not necessary.

They also had nice, neat slots for elderly people, too (they were interchangeable with smartass, precocious 7 year olds in the formula).

Oh god, I remember that. Another very similar 1980's sitcom premise was "Divorced Dad With Custody", because what could be funnier than a man actually raising his own children? Ho ho ho! So improbable!

When I was a little kid, I actually got made fun of by the other kids at school for having divorced parents and being mostly raised by my dad.

I also got made fun of because we only rented our house, so I clearly lived in a town full of assholes at the time, but still. The divorced dad raising a kid thing was not only uncommon (or at least not commonly discussed in polite society) but such a break from the social norm that it was grounds for being socially ostracized.

I was brought up by a divorced dad, in a town where all the divorced kids were brought up by their mothers. This pissed me off, no end because they got away with murder and I used to get the shit kicked out of me if I got caught doing anything

On the plus side - I found that the ability to take a beating without flinching is a fucking invaluable lifeskill.

[East Coast Hustle]

Yeah, that too.