Not everyone is beautiful

[Pope Pixie Pickle]

This blog is tangentially related maybe?

It's also some funny shit.

http://ad-busting.tumblr.com

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

This blog is tangentially related maybe?

It's also some funny shit.

http://ad-busting.tumblr.com

That's a good blog! And yeah.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Cameron Russel gave this talk in which she illustrates a great deal of what I was trying to express in my OP: http://www.ted.com/talks/cameron_russell_looks_aren_t_everything_believe_me_i_m_a_model.html

[Ben Shapiro]

It also cuts the other way, too. If a woman has virtues unrelated to her looks, but also has looks, she is often reduced to being a pretty face and her other qualities are demoted to second-class attributes or even ignored. For many women it's almost a requirement to be borderline ugly before they can be taken seriously -- of course, lacking beauty they have a lot more trouble being heard in the first place. This is a great disservice not only to women but to society in general, because it encourages beautiful women to aspire only to beauty, and stacks the deck against ugly women, both of which serve to reinforce the bullshit notion that pretty girls are weak and/or dumb, and strong/intelligent women are undesirable. This is obviously overgeneralizing it but the tendency is there, I think.

But I don't think it's so easy to divorce sex drive from value judgments based on beauty, especially considering how sex-obsessed (and repressed) our culture is.

"HEY MARILYN, WE GOT YOU ANOTHER GREAT MOVIE PART! YOU'RE GONNA PLAY A HOT BORDERLINE RETARD AGAIN!"

<3 <3 <3

[Pope Pixie Pickle]

Cameron Russel gave this talk in which she illustrates a great deal of what I was trying to express in my OP: http://www.ted.com/talks/cameron_russell_looks_aren_t_everything_believe_me_i_m_a_model.html

I saw that a few days ago. It was very good.

[Pergamos]

I will ask all of you a single question, and I demand that you defend your answer; Is Roger beautiful?

Go.

Yes.  I find him very beautiful, aesthetically speaking.

Waffle iron is beautiful.

All the ladies is hottie pance.

I could go on. On and on and on. I spags here exceedingly beautiful.

This thread.  I find myself becoming more hostile the more I read it, because I'm not sure if we're taking into account what the viewer thinks is beautiful, or what is going on. OP states that fat people are ugly.  They are maybe to you. I'm not about to say that there aren't ugly people, because there are.

I will fully admit to missing the point entirely if I have, but hey, FUCK YOU, because I qualify as ugly, and struggle daily to see myself otherwise, which is probably a point you were trying to bring up, but unless you have some sort of whatever I don't even know what the fuck, just fuck right the hell off.

The point, for someone who is actually ugly seemed to look like this

"No, you aren't beautiful, stop trying to define yourself as something you aren't and realize that your value as a human being doesn't rely on your physical appearance.  Stop trying to be beautiful and emphasize your strengths instead"

Come to think of it, that seemed to be basically the message for someone who is beautiful too.  Since beauty fades, don't rely on it, build up your other strengths so they'll be there when you aren't gorgeous any longer.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I will ask all of you a single question, and I demand that you defend your answer; Is Roger beautiful?

Go.

Yes.  I find him very beautiful, aesthetically speaking.

Waffle iron is beautiful.

All the ladies is hottie pance.

I could go on. On and on and on. I spags here exceedingly beautiful.

This thread.  I find myself becoming more hostile the more I read it, because I'm not sure if we're taking into account what the viewer thinks is beautiful, or what is going on. OP states that fat people are ugly.  They are maybe to you. I'm not about to say that there aren't ugly people, because there are.

I will fully admit to missing the point entirely if I have, but hey, FUCK YOU, because I qualify as ugly, and struggle daily to see myself otherwise, which is probably a point you were trying to bring up, but unless you have some sort of whatever I don't even know what the fuck, just fuck right the hell off.

The point, for someone who is actually ugly seemed to look like this

"No, you aren't beautiful, stop trying to define yourself as something you aren't and realize that your value as a human being doesn't rely on your physical appearance.  Stop trying to be beautiful and emphasize your strengths instead"

Come to think of it, that seemed to be basically the message for someone who is beautiful too.  Since beauty fades, don't rely on it, build up your other strengths so they'll be there when you aren't gorgeous any longer.

Bingo

Why are we even tying up human worth in physical appearance? That's the real question. We, as a culture, use "beautiful" synonymously with "good", to the point where it's almost impossible to extricate the two in people's minds.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

One of the things I was thinking about but never got back to with the "is Roger beautiful" question is that when asked to explain their response, most people gave explanations that were values that actually have nothing to do with physical good looks. He's brilliant... OK, yeah. But that isn't "beauty", exactly. Well, it is in the sense that my brain totally wants to do it and have little brain-babies with his brain (and most of the brains here, in one big grey slippery brain-orgy) but in the sense that we usually use to describe a person as "beautiful", not so much.

But we use "beautiful" as a synonym for "good", so in that sense, yes, of course his brain makes him beautiful. We also use "beautiful" as a synonym for "attractive", although they actually mean different things.

I think there is a totally valid and useful place for the word "beautiful". It has a very functional definition and is a real, if mutable, phenomenon. I just want, kind of like how just yesterday Roger reminded me to THINK when I talk, for people to be conscious of the word when they use it, and maybe sometimes take a second thought and use a different, more appropriate word instead. Like brilliant, creative, persistent, reliable, joyous, funny, or compassionate.

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

There's some kind of conditioned response that comes into play, I think.

Eyes: "Hey, there's Roger!" Brain: "YAY!"

Eyes: "Hey, there's Brad Pitt." Brain: "Shut that shit off."

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Another interesting, if tangential thought that has already been mentioned a few times in this thread... personality and familiarity always override physical beauty. Therefore, physical beauty is largely an issue in first impressions. If you were to ask me what, for example, Hoopla looks like, I would have a hard time describing him beyond shaved head and glasses, because to me, Hoopla is far more personality than appearance. I don't think he'd appreciate "he looks HILARIOUS!" 

Likewise, I have an old friend who, occasionally, my new friends will meet and be all "OMG WHO IS YOUR FRIEND HE'S SO SO HOT" and I'm all THAT GUY? REALLY????

[Pergamos]

Another interesting, if tangential thought that has already been mentioned a few times in this thread... personality and familiarity always override physical beauty. Therefore, physical beauty is largely an issue in first impressions. If you were to ask me what, for example, Hoopla looks like, I would have a hard time describing him beyond shaved head and glasses, because to me, Hoopla is far more personality than appearance. I don't think he'd appreciate "he looks HILARIOUS!" 

Likewise, I have an old friend who, occasionally, my new friends will meet and be all "OMG WHO IS YOUR FRIEND HE'S SO SO HOT" and I'm all THAT GUY? REALLY????

This makes the idea that everyone is beautiful a lot easier for people to accept, since if they get to know someone and that person has a lot of good attributes they are going to perceive them as beautiful, or at least a lot closer to beautiful than if they don't know them.

Doesn't make it right, but it's certainly part of the foundation.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Another interesting, if tangential thought that has already been mentioned a few times in this thread... personality and familiarity always override physical beauty. Therefore, physical beauty is largely an issue in first impressions. If you were to ask me what, for example, Hoopla looks like, I would have a hard time describing him beyond shaved head and glasses, because to me, Hoopla is far more personality than appearance. I don't think he'd appreciate "he looks HILARIOUS!" 

Likewise, I have an old friend who, occasionally, my new friends will meet and be all "OMG WHO IS YOUR FRIEND HE'S SO SO HOT" and I'm all THAT GUY? REALLY????

This makes the idea that everyone is beautiful a lot easier for people to accept, since if they get to know someone and that person has a lot of good attributes they are going to perceive them as beautiful, or at least a lot closer to beautiful than if they don't know them.

Doesn't make it right, but it's certainly part of the foundation.

That's that redefinition of the word that I was talking about, the conflation with attractive or good. The very thing I'm arguing against.

[Pergamos]

Another interesting, if tangential thought that has already been mentioned a few times in this thread... personality and familiarity always override physical beauty. Therefore, physical beauty is largely an issue in first impressions. If you were to ask me what, for example, Hoopla looks like, I would have a hard time describing him beyond shaved head and glasses, because to me, Hoopla is far more personality than appearance. I don't think he'd appreciate "he looks HILARIOUS!" 

Likewise, I have an old friend who, occasionally, my new friends will meet and be all "OMG WHO IS YOUR FRIEND HE'S SO SO HOT" and I'm all THAT GUY? REALLY????

This makes the idea that everyone is beautiful a lot easier for people to accept, since if they get to know someone and that person has a lot of good attributes they are going to perceive them as beautiful, or at least a lot closer to beautiful than if they don't know them.

Doesn't make it right, but it's certainly part of the foundation.

That's that redefinition of the word that I was talking about, the conflation with attractive or good. The very thing I'm arguing against.

I know the definition of beauty is outside the scope of this thread, but I think we might get a more productive flow of conversation if we have a clear concise definition given for exactly what beauty means in the context of this thread.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

If you'd read the thread, we've already done that.  Page one or two, IIRC.

[P3nT4gR4m]

Beauty is my abs and, to a lesser degree my lats.

Ugly is all the fucked up looking shit from the neck up.