Police cameras

[Nephew Twiddleton]

So in a nutshell what did I miss? What's RWHN on about?

The clumsy generalization that has been made of law enforcement in the US.  i strongly disagree with it based on my experiences working with various departments at various levels throughout my career.  More often than not, I've met and partnered with commited individuals who took the job to make their communities safer for its citizens.  The city I work in has a large refugee, immigrant population and the police have worked tirelessly to try to make their community safer for them which includes working WITH, not against, the elders and the Mosque leaders.


But, nutshell is I think there is far too much cynicism with respect to the police.  Not that there aren't problems, but that they aren't as endemic as being purported.

What about the evidence that ECH linked to that Garbo mentioned?

Do you have experience with authorities that aren't the authorities in your current city?

[Nephew Twiddleton]

By the way, people who refer to it as L/A in conversation should have their Maine card revoked. I trust you're only doing that to protect your privacy.

If he is, it didn't work.

Twid,
Google

ETA: insofar as to mask what city was being talked about.

[AFK]

Yes.  I have colleagues and partners in my work who are in dozens of police departments across the state, which includes sherriffs, chiefs of police, lieutenants, officers, etc.  I work with individuals at the local, county, and state level. I have partners in the DEA, the Maine DEA.  Through national conferences, conventions, etc., I have colleagues in other police departments in other states including New York, Pennsylvania, Florida, etc.


I will definitely put my actual hands on experience up against anyone on this board.  Law enforcement are key partners in the work I do, and I'm not just talking about arresting people for drug violations.  They are also there along side me as I do the community building work to make our communities safer and to help those who are at risk. 


The link, which actually Cain provided, is an interesting study that looked at racial profiling which obviously does exist and was obviously present in the case studies reviewed in that paper.  But, they were just that, case studies.  I don't believe you can take that and cast it upon every other department in every other community because all communities are different.  I personally think it is a fairly lazy and clumsy generalization which definitely differs from the balance of my experience and the experience of others inmy field from across the country.  And we are all in the business of helping the minority sub-populations in our communities whether it be ethnic, orientation, behavioral health, etc. 

[AFK]

By the way, people who refer to it as L/A in conversation should have their Maine card revoked. I trust you're only doing that to protect your privacy.

If he is, it didn't work.

Twid,
Google

ETA: insofar as to mask what city was being talked about.

No, but it IS a common short-hand used for the twin cities here in Maine. 

[Nephew Twiddleton]

Yes.  I have colleagues and partners in my work who are in dozens of police departments across the state, which includes sherriffs, chiefs of police, lieutenants, officers, etc.  I work with individuals at the local, county, and state level. I have partners in the DEA, the Maine DEA.  Through national conferences, conventions, etc., I have colleagues in other police departments in other states including New York, Pennsylvania, Florida, etc.


I will definitely put my actual hands on experience up against anyone on this board.  Law enforcement are key partners in the work I do, and I'm not just talking about arresting people for drug violations.  They are also there along side me as I do the community building work to make our communities safer and to help those who are at risk. 


The link, which actually Cain provided, is an interesting study that looked at racial profiling which obviously does exist and was obviously present in the case studies reviewed in that paper.  But, they were just that, case studies.  I don't believe you can take that and cast it upon every other department in every other community because all communities are different.  I personally think it is a fairly lazy and clumsy generalization which definitely differs from the balance of my experience and the experience of others inmy field from across the country.  And we are all in the business of helping the minority sub-populations in our communities whether it be ethnic, orientation, behavioral health, etc.

Sounds like a complex bit of stuff then, the police and whether they are this or that.

Well, just to throw in the Boston experience, the Boston police are notoriously racist, homophobic and anti-democratic, if their union newsletter is any indication of general attitudes.

[AFK]

The question I would throw out (to anyone) is, how certain are you that the notoriety matches up 100% with reality?  Not whether or not there are racial incidences, but how kany officers in those departments are put there doing the right thing?  Doing what they swore an oath to do?  If your answer is anything along the lines of " I don't know", I would challenge you to rethink your conclusions, and perhaps, find out a little more about the ins and outs of your local department.  Not just whatever awful story makes the headlines, but what are the rest of them doing? 


The newspapers and the 6 O'Clock news aren't going to report on the good things they are doing.  They aren't going to report on the routine actions that are part of their jobs.  Are you (I'm using the general "you") really basing your conclusions on ALL of the information, or just what you see in paper and on the internet.  If you think that is the WHOLE story, well, I don't know what to tell you.

[Juana]

Fresno PD was notorious for killing smudgy people for years (it got better when they brought in an independent police auditor, though) and my city's PD had to be taught how not to racially profile people (they're still hella racist and I've had a couple friends when they were over here be told to get back on the Fresno side of the freeway).

Yes.  I have colleagues and partners in my work who are in dozens of police departments across the state, which includes sherriffs, chiefs of police, lieutenants, officers, etc.  I work with individuals at the local, county, and state level. I have partners in the DEA, the Maine DEA.  Through national conferences, conventions, etc., I have colleagues in other police departments in other states including New York, Pennsylvania, Florida, etc.


I will definitely put my actual hands on experience up against anyone on this board.  Law enforcement are key partners in the work I do, and I'm not just talking about arresting people for drug violations.  They are also there along side me as I do the community building work to make our communities safer and to help those who are at risk. 


The link, which actually Cain provided, is an interesting study that looked at racial profiling which obviously does exist and was obviously present in the case studies reviewed in that paper.  But, they were just that, case studies.  I don't believe you can take that and cast it upon every other department in every other community because all communities are different.  I personally think it is a fairly lazy and clumsy generalization which definitely differs from the balance of my experience and the experience of others inmy field from across the country.  And we are all in the business of helping the minority sub-populations in our communities whether it be ethnic, orientation, behavioral health, etc. 

I'm just going to point out that the default in our society is "bigot", across the board. Even if a person does not mean to be, unless they are actively and constantly hacking their programming, they're going to do and say bigoted shit.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I am still not understanding why Roger's experience as a cop doesn't count.

[AFK]

It does count, but it doesn't count SO much that it can indict every other department in the country.

[AFK]

Fresno PD was notorious for killing smudgy people for years (it got better when they brought in an independent police auditor, though) and my city's PD had to be taught how not to racially profile people (they're still hella racist and I've had a couple friends when they were over here be told to get back on the Fresno side of the freeway).

Yes.  I have colleagues and partners in my work who are in dozens of police departments across the state, which includes sherriffs, chiefs of police, lieutenants, officers, etc.  I work with individuals at the local, county, and state level. I have partners in the DEA, the Maine DEA.  Through national conferences, conventions, etc., I have colleagues in other police departments in other states including New York, Pennsylvania, Florida, etc.


I will definitely put my actual hands on experience up against anyone on this board.  Law enforcement are key partners in the work I do, and I'm not just talking about arresting people for drug violations.  They are also there along side me as I do the community building work to make our communities safer and to help those who are at risk. 


The link, which actually Cain provided, is an interesting study that looked at racial profiling which obviously does exist and was obviously present in the case studies reviewed in that paper.  But, they were just that, case studies.  I don't believe you can take that and cast it upon every other department in every other community because all communities are different.  I personally think it is a fairly lazy and clumsy generalization which definitely differs from the balance of my experience and the experience of others inmy field from across the country.  And we are all in the business of helping the minority sub-populations in our communities whether it be ethnic, orientation, behavioral health, etc. 

I'm just going to point out that the default in our society is "bigot", across the board. Even if a person does not mean to be, unless they are actively and constantly hacking their programming, they're going to do and say bigoted shit.

I think that is a very cynical view and one I personally believe is incorrect.  There is more good in this world than you give credit.

[Juana]

Institutionalized prejudice is institutionalized, RHWN. It doesn't have to come with malice or intent to be prejudice.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

Garbo's right. Even we have to keep messing around with our wiring in order to get closer to right.

And, you say lining up 100% with reality. Nothing does that. But I'm willing to trust the UN's assessment on the situation, since they're an independent observer. Thing is man, there's this whole sort of thing where we know that racism is wrong and we pretend it's not there. And a lot of racists will pretend that they are not, maybe even fool themselves into thinking that they are not, unless they're flat out Neo-Nazis or Klansmen. I'm sure your experience with the po-po has been very positive. That does not mean that other people have had the same positive experiences, even with the same officers. I've never had a problem with the police except for one time where they kept asking me if I took a piss in the alleyway because I was walking around at 1 am (asking if I was sure and all that. Mind you it was dead winter, so, no, pretty sure I don't want to whip my dick out right now). But then again, I'm a fairly harmless looking white male.

[Phox]

The question I would throw out (to anyone) is, how certain are you that the notoriety matches up 100% with reality?  Not whether or not there are racial incidences, but how kany officers in those departments are put there doing the right thing?  Doing what they swore an oath to do?  If your answer is anything along the lines of " I don't know", I would challenge you to rethink your conclusions, and perhaps, find out a little more about the ins and outs of your local department.  Not just whatever awful story makes the headlines, but what are the rest of them doing? 


The newspapers and the 6 O'Clock news aren't going to report on the good things they are doing.  They aren't going to report on the routine actions that are part of their jobs.  Are you (I'm using the general "you") really basing your conclusions on ALL of the information, or just what you see in paper and on the internet.  If you think that is the WHOLE story, well, I don't know what to tell you.

I could tell you that I know, personally, that every single police officer in my local department, and in two towns in every direction, is a certified sociopath. There's a particularly giant prick of a cop who, a few months ago, busted into a man's house, and beat the holy shit out of him in front of his young grandson. Why? Turns out, that the dude's girlfriend's dad didn't like him, and was friends with a few of the honest, hard-working boys in blue. So he had them go and rough up a man who did not a goddamn thing. The police claimed that when they got there, he was beating the ever-loving shit out of the kid. kid goes to hospital, DCFS investigates. Not a damn mark on the kid. What happens to the officers in question? Not a goddamn thing.

In the next town over, there's a particularly nasty cop who likes to beat the unholy hell out of tweakers and extort them for money or drugs. This is well known by pretty much everyone. Not a damn thing is done about it. Because he's doing it to "the right people."

Little town up the way? If you're black and on the wrong side of town, if you don't get beaten, tased, or even shot you better thank your lucky stars that weren't any patrol cars around that day.

The sad part is. I know, personally, most of the people responsible for all of that shit. Grew up and went to school with more than a few. Know their families, kids, brothers and sisters... and guess what? Half of them are the nicest people you ever did meet. Unless they decide that they don't like you. Or who you hang out with. Or what color your sneakers are.

But we can sit here and trade anecdotes all day, RWHN. I could tell you about how my parents were treated in NC. Or what happened to me in PA. Or any of a thousand other little instances of police abuse that I have borne witness to in my short little life. I can tell you what goes on in the backrooms of some of the local stations. I've had the pleasure of being in a few myself. And not on the receiving end, either. Just as an observer.

But where does that really get us? I, personally, have first-hand experience with this. In my experience, the smaller the town, and the more localized the agency, the worse it is. Your average Chicago beat cop is less likely to to beat you to a pulp for looking at him the wrong way than a Christopher boy. The IL State police won't breakdown your door at 10 am on a Saturday and shoot you while you sit on your couch. The FBI, DEA, and whatever else won't drag you to your basement meth lab slam your head through all of your glass ware, and set the place on fire leaving you in it, bloody and semi-conscious. Or would they? Can't say I have that much experience with the Feds, to be honest.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

Damn.

[AFK]

I dunno what to say guys, I just think this place has just sunk so far into the tales of horrormirth that it is all you guys can see, even when it isn't there.  And the problem with that, is you end up unwittingly forsaking allies, which I think is very unfortunate.