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PD.com: "the lot of you are some of the most vicious, name calling, vile examples of humanity I've had the misfortune of attempting to communicate with.  Even attempting to mimic the general mood of the place toward people who think differently leaves a slimy feel on my skin.  Reptilian, even."

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So What's A White Boy To Do?

Started by Mesozoic Mister Nigel, November 27, 2012, 06:19:13 PM

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The Good Reverend Roger

#15
November 27, 2012, 07:05:49 PM
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on November 27, 2012, 06:56:00 PM
I suspect American(TM) culture isn't a culture. It's a...thing...that eats cultures. Swallows 'em and shits 'em out already shrinkwrapped and bar coded.

So were the Romans.  Dominant cultures are that way.  It's all how you sell it.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

The Good Reverend Roger

#16
November 27, 2012, 07:07:53 PM
Quote from: Secret Agent GARBO on November 27, 2012, 07:05:20 PM
I'm pretty sure enjoying the outdoors is universally human.

The Yokuts and Monache might disagree.  I mean, you're walking on land appropriated from them.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Junkenstein

#17
November 27, 2012, 07:09:09 PM Last Edit: November 27, 2012, 07:15:06 PM by Junkenstein
My thinking is something like this: You're you. You're so totally special and you have these opinions. That's totally fucking awesome. Unfortunately, you live next to them. Your neighbours. With their music and their opinions. They suck. In fact your town sucks, the local music scene sucks and you bail. You find a new town. New people. End up living somewhere. But the neighbours suck here too. So you move. And again. Then you find out that the town is just as shitty as the old town. So you move.....

The above is a hypothetical "you", taking culture at the scale of where you live. I'd guess a lot of you have moved at some point, so consider the change on the social circles you are no longer in. While I may be missed in a couple, I suspect life, attitudes and very little really has changed in most.

I guess I'm thinking of trying to avoid the idea where you assume that you are central to these things to the extent that life just wouldn't be them same without X around.

Consider here, no bans, many a flounce and IMMALEAVINGFEREVVER. This kind of thinking puts any culture as external. And I guess when you view yourself as apart from or above something the result is not going to be positive.


Edit - Just remembered the second bit, yeah you've got me there that was the idiot talking. I try to censor him. I occasionally succeed.

Nine naked Men just walking down the road will cause a heap of trouble for all concerned.

The Good Reverend Roger

#18
November 27, 2012, 07:12:13 PM
Quote from: Junkenstein on November 27, 2012, 07:09:09 PM
My thinking is something like this: You're you. You're so totally special and you have these opinions. That's totally fucking awesome. Unfortunately, you live next to them. Your neighbours. With their music and their opinions. They suck. In fact your town sucks, the local music scene sucks and you bail. You find a new town. New people. End up living somewhere. But the neighbours suck here too. So you move. And again. Then you find out that the town is just as shitty as the old town. So you move.....

The above is a hypothetical "you", taking culture at the scale of where you live. I'd guess a lot of you have moved at some point, so consider the change on the social circles you are no longer in. While I may be missed in a couple, I suspect life, attitudes and very little really has changed in most.

I guess I'm thinking of trying to avoid the idea where you assume that you are central to these things to the extent that life just wouldn't be them same without X around.

Consider here, no bans, many a flounce and IMMALEAVINGFEREVVER. This kind of thinking puts any culture as external. And I guess when you view yourself as apart from or above something the result is not going to be positive.

Running from your culture is like running from your legs.  You can't do it, because it's part of you.

" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Junkenstein

#19
November 27, 2012, 07:25:52 PM
I don't think I'm getting this out very well.

I kind of have this idea of there essentially being 2 groups of cultures, Your Own(tm pending) and Theirs.

While you can't escape your own, and your own life essentially establishes your personal culture, They have many and you can enter these to various extents with various degrees of effort.

When looking at this second group the impact of a given individual on it (or not) is relatively small. This is what gets me thinking towards the main way to change things would be at creation or soon upon entry into it. Sticking with music as an example, count the number of bands that have "revolutionised music" over the years. No one is revolutionary after a couple of tours though.


Again, bad examples and sweeping generalisations, I'll think about this a bit and either shut up or try and make more sense.
Nine naked Men just walking down the road will cause a heap of trouble for all concerned.

Juana

#20
November 27, 2012, 07:39:43 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 27, 2012, 07:07:53 PM
Quote from: Secret Agent GARBO on November 27, 2012, 07:05:20 PM
I'm pretty sure enjoying the outdoors is universally human.

The Yokuts and Monache might disagree.  I mean, you're walking on land appropriated from them.

The actual, physical process of hiking is not a stolen activity. Yes, it's on stolen land, but I'm not stealing their culture.
"I dispose of obsolete meat machines.  Not because I hate them (I do) and not because they deserve it (they do), but because they are in the way and those older ones don't meet emissions codes.  They emit too much.  You don't like them and I don't like them, so spare me the hysteria."

LMNO

#21
November 27, 2012, 07:46:24 PM
I've heard, for really real, that some pre-colonial dwellers of the North American continent (as it is currently called) are indeed offended when the white opressor walks upon their sacred land and, you know, enjoys themselves.

Juana

#22
November 27, 2012, 07:51:19 PM
:lulz: I was thinking about the differences between the Western concept of land versus (some? I don't know very much about Native tribes) Native concept of land. Close enough.
"I dispose of obsolete meat machines.  Not because I hate them (I do) and not because they deserve it (they do), but because they are in the way and those older ones don't meet emissions codes.  They emit too much.  You don't like them and I don't like them, so spare me the hysteria."

The Good Reverend Roger

#23
November 27, 2012, 09:37:58 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on November 27, 2012, 07:46:24 PM
I've heard, for really real, that some pre-colonial dwellers of the North American continent (as it is currently called) are indeed offended when the white opressor walks upon their sacred land and, you know, enjoys themselves.

You're right.  They're all dead now, so it doesn't matter.

"Every fortune begins with a crime lapsed statute of limitations."
- Voltaire
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

The Good Reverend Roger

#24
November 27, 2012, 09:46:16 PM
Basically - and I'm sure I have this wrong - my take on the last few posts was "ethics are important, but don't look directly at me".

We shouldn't wear a war bonnet, but it's okay to take and subsequently use hunting grounds, etc.  We shouldn't put our hair in dreds, but it's okay to benefit from slave labor.

It seems so selective.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Juana

#25
November 27, 2012, 10:00:16 PM
Where are you getting the "ethics are important, but don't look directly at me" thing? I feel like you're conflating influence/organic change with cultural appropriation, and they're quite different. One is natural and fine, the other is theft. This is really not intended to attack you or anyone here and it seems like you're getting kind of het up about it.

We live in a really fucking shitty world, Roger. I don't have an answer for the land thing, but I know I can refrain from adding insult to injury by not wearing a war bonnet. As for the slave labor, that can be fought (or at least we can do our damnedest). And again, I can refrain from adding insult to injury by not wearing a sign of their resistance to the domination of my race.
"I dispose of obsolete meat machines.  Not because I hate them (I do) and not because they deserve it (they do), but because they are in the way and those older ones don't meet emissions codes.  They emit too much.  You don't like them and I don't like them, so spare me the hysteria."

The Good Reverend Roger

#26
November 27, 2012, 10:07:51 PM
Quote from: Secret Agent GARBO on November 27, 2012, 10:00:16 PM
Where are you getting the "ethics are important, but don't look directly at me" thing? I feel like you're conflating influence/organic change with cultural appropriation, and they're quite different. One is natural and fine, the other is theft. This is really not intended to attack you or anyone here and it seems like you're getting kind of het up about it.

Nope.  Just on unfamiliar ground.


Quote from: Secret Agent GARBO on November 27, 2012, 10:00:16 PM
We live in a really fucking shitty world, Roger.

You don't say.   :lulz:

Quote from: Secret Agent GARBO on November 27, 2012, 10:00:16 PM
I don't have an answer for the land thing, but I know I can refrain from adding insult to injury by not wearing a war bonnet. As for the slave labor, that can be fought (or at least we can do our damnedest). And again, I can refrain from adding insult to injury by not wearing a sign of their resistance to the domination of my race.

So we can attain the form if not the function, so to speak.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Junkenstein

#27
November 27, 2012, 10:12:31 PM
An argument could be made that societies/cultures are built around the basis of form creating function.


Not saying this has worked out well though, but it does appear to be the Mammalian way to create a structure and the expect people to adhere to it. It works pretty well. Unfortunately.
Nine naked Men just walking down the road will cause a heap of trouble for all concerned.

The Good Reverend Roger

#28
November 27, 2012, 10:14:09 PM
Quote from: Junkenstein on November 27, 2012, 10:12:31 PM
An argument could be made that societies/cultures are built around the basis of form creating function.


So war bonnets create hunting grounds?  I can buy that...Or at least the idea that war bonnets make the hunting ground the exclusive province of one group.  That would be the side with the most war bonnets.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Juana

#29
November 27, 2012, 10:19:11 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on November 27, 2012, 10:07:51 PM
Quote from: Secret Agent GARBO on November 27, 2012, 10:00:16 PM
Where are you getting the "ethics are important, but don't look directly at me" thing? I feel like you're conflating influence/organic change with cultural appropriation, and they're quite different. One is natural and fine, the other is theft. This is really not intended to attack you or anyone here and it seems like you're getting kind of het up about it.

Nope.  Just on unfamiliar ground.


Quote from: Secret Agent GARBO on November 27, 2012, 10:00:16 PM
We live in a really fucking shitty world, Roger.

You don't say.   :lulz:

Quote from: Secret Agent GARBO on November 27, 2012, 10:00:16 PM
I don't have an answer for the land thing, but I know I can refrain from adding insult to injury by not wearing a war bonnet. As for the slave labor, that can be fought (or at least we can do our damnedest). And again, I can refrain from adding insult to injury by not wearing a sign of their resistance to the domination of my race.

So we can attain the form if not the function, so to speak.
I guess? It's better than making their cultures into costumes/novelties, I suppose. And also more respectful of them as people.
"I dispose of obsolete meat machines.  Not because I hate them (I do) and not because they deserve it (they do), but because they are in the way and those older ones don't meet emissions codes.  They emit too much.  You don't like them and I don't like them, so spare me the hysteria."
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