Shooting at CT Elementary School. WTF AMERICA?!

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

An interesting dichotomy exists between television shows and television commercials.

The commercials use the 8 circuit model to emphasize a myth of individuality (some of which are done in a diabolically clever way, like the "Bluebell Ice Cream" commericials), while the shows emphatically state that it's okay for an individualist to conform to the group or submit to authority by his or her own choice (that choice, of course, being an illusion).  Specific examples would be "24", where we "choose to allow" people like Jack Bauer to torture people for the common good, because he's an even more "rugged individualist" than we are, and can therefore be trusted to act in our stead.

Yeah, it's pretty interesting how so many TV shows right now center around an agency that's bigger than the government, or an individual (or individuals) who operate outside of the law, essentially taking care of things for the rest of us.

It's an odd dichotomy, reinforcing the idea of "rugged individualism GOOD!" while also providing the comforting notion that we're all being taken care of.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

An interesting dichotomy exists between television shows and television commercials.

The commercials use the 8 circuit model to emphasize a myth of individuality (some of which are done in a diabolically clever way, like the "Bluebell Ice Cream" commericials), while the shows emphatically state that it's okay for an individualist to conform to the group or submit to authority by his or her own choice (that choice, of course, being an illusion).  Specific examples would be "24", where we "choose to allow" people like Jack Bauer to torture people for the common good, because he's an even more "rugged individualist" than we are, and can therefore be trusted to act in our stead.

Yeah, it's pretty interesting how so many TV shows right now center around an agency that's bigger than the government, or an individual (or individuals) who operate outside of the law, essentially taking care of things for the rest of us.

It's an odd dichotomy, reinforcing the idea of "rugged individualism GOOD!" while also providing the comforting notion that we're all being taken care of.

It's also funny how people can't or won't look at the situation, because it hits them square in the 2nd circuit.  You can explain until you're blue in the face, and they CAN'T LOOK AT IT.

Conditioning is a terrible thing.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

What I want to know is why do mentally unhealthy Americans keep targeting schools? Isn't that the more critical question? Why not banks or Walmart or the airports or malls or any other crowded place?

When Columbine happened I was in the 7th grade...and was anything but shocked. Our schools are breeding grounds for poor mental health. The only thing that shocks me is how infrequently these things happen. Americans are slowly but surely eating themselves, and they are going to do it with whatever tools on hand.

And it seems many of these people pick places that coincide with critical aspects of their development.

Yep. Completely. That's just one facet of our deeply fucked society, but yes. You also see that pattern in workplace shootings. Deeply damaged people doing damage on places that they felt traumatized and disempowered in.

[Elder Iptuous]

Found another solution for tackling insane gunmen, which does not this time rely on the power of prayer and a moral lifestyle:

Banzai toddler charges.

i read through this article bobbing my head like a ninny, in total agreement, thinking your summary phrase was just a hook, and then she said it. 
apart from the final suggestion, though, it was a really good article, imo.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

it seems a little too CT to me.  possible, i guess, but wouldn't it have to be a large scale effort to push this on the public (considering the forces you mention which would work in the exact opposite direction) over a terribly long time?  it seems that it would be outed by now if that were the case.

fun to think about, though

Since when is "marketing" a conspiracy theory? 

The whole "Rugged Frontier Individualist Society" thing never made any sense to me, for reasons I've already explained. Huge swathes of our American mythology come from marketing campaigns, and this particular one, so neat and tidy, definitely fits that model well. It seems a hell of a lot more plausible than the idea that it arose spontaneously.

maybe you're right, but i was under the impression that "marketing" was pretty straight forward at the time the individualism theme became prominent in our country.  (which was when? if it is the result of a campaign, it would have a pretty clear demarcation of origin, wouldn't it?)

Why are you asking me for facts and figures on a concept that I just heard about and said I'm intrigued by? And why are you arguing against the idea of it before I even look into it? Trying to dissuade someone from doing more research is kinda pink, don't you think? Does the idea threaten your worldview so profoundly that you don't even want other people to look into it? WTF.

no.  it was idle chatting.  i wasn't asking for facts and figures, they were rhetorical questions that popped into my head.
you're more than welcome to do research that intrigues you, of course, and far be it from me to attempt to dissuade you.  if you found anything of note, i would be interested to hear it.

Sometimes it seems like you enjoy arguing just for the sake of arguing itself, whether you believe in your arguments and have information to back them up, or not.

I don't.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I am now finding this avoidance to be hilariously funny.



OOOOOK!

[Elder Iptuous]

all right, Nigel.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

What I want to know is why do mentally unhealthy Americans keep targeting schools?

Hold up.

The last three major shootings that come to mind:

School.
Movie Theater.
Political Rally.



It's called the LAW OF FIVES, PEOPLE!  I expect people on this board to be SLIGHTLY more rational!

Don't forget the ever-popular mall shootings. Those don't usually end in a high death toll though, because malls are large and have many exits.

[Don Coyote]

I think I'm missing a whole bunch of shit in this thread.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I think I'm missing a whole bunch of shit in this thread.

It's okay.  Just use the default settings:  Guns, massacre, etc.

You don't have to reference the things you're responding to, in this sort of thread.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

An interesting dichotomy exists between television shows and television commercials.

The commercials use the 8 circuit model to emphasize a myth of individuality (some of which are done in a diabolically clever way, like the "Bluebell Ice Cream" commericials), while the shows emphatically state that it's okay for an individualist to conform to the group or submit to authority by his or her own choice (that choice, of course, being an illusion).  Specific examples would be "24", where we "choose to allow" people like Jack Bauer to torture people for the common good, because he's an even more "rugged individualist" than we are, and can therefore be trusted to act in our stead.

Yeah, it's pretty interesting how so many TV shows right now center around an agency that's bigger than the government, or an individual (or individuals) who operate outside of the law, essentially taking care of things for the rest of us.

It's an odd dichotomy, reinforcing the idea of "rugged individualism GOOD!" while also providing the comforting notion that we're all being taken care of.

It's also funny how people can't or won't look at the situation, because it hits them square in the 2nd circuit.  You can explain until you're blue in the face, and they CAN'T LOOK AT IT.

Conditioning is a terrible thing.

Yeah, it's true. Trust me, I've tried to have this conversation before, about how the "rugged individualism" that Americans pride ourselves on so much is actually toxic and anti-community, as well as paradoxically anti-survival. Which is part of why I'm so interested in its origins.

People really can't wrap their heads around it, and avoid the shit out of it. Especially enlightened liberals, who feel special and hate the masses etc etc. They've bought into it completely, and it's too uncomfortable for them to examine the possibility that the only way to build a healthy society is to actually FUCKING BE A SOCIETY.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

An interesting dichotomy exists between television shows and television commercials.

The commercials use the 8 circuit model to emphasize a myth of individuality (some of which are done in a diabolically clever way, like the "Bluebell Ice Cream" commericials), while the shows emphatically state that it's okay for an individualist to conform to the group or submit to authority by his or her own choice (that choice, of course, being an illusion).  Specific examples would be "24", where we "choose to allow" people like Jack Bauer to torture people for the common good, because he's an even more "rugged individualist" than we are, and can therefore be trusted to act in our stead.

Yeah, it's pretty interesting how so many TV shows right now center around an agency that's bigger than the government, or an individual (or individuals) who operate outside of the law, essentially taking care of things for the rest of us.

It's an odd dichotomy, reinforcing the idea of "rugged individualism GOOD!" while also providing the comforting notion that we're all being taken care of.

It's also funny how people can't or won't look at the situation, because it hits them square in the 2nd circuit.  You can explain until you're blue in the face, and they CAN'T LOOK AT IT.

Conditioning is a terrible thing.

Yeah, it's true. Trust me, I've tried to have this conversation before, about how the "rugged individualism" that Americans pride ourselves on so much is actually toxic and anti-community, as well as paradoxically anti-survival. Which is part of why I'm so interested in its origins.

People really can't wrap their heads around it, and avoid the shit out of it. Especially enlightened liberals, who feel special and hate the masses etc etc. They've bought into it completely, and it's too uncomfortable for them to examine the possibility that the only way to build a healthy society is to actually FUCKING BE A SOCIETY.

Yep.  It particularly doesn't fly in "rugged individualist" states, like Alaska (Alty seems to be an exception).  Or Texas, for that matter.

But you are correct.  While certain regions may have it worse than others, ALL OF THEM HAVE IT.

And I could see how the left fringe would really, really fall for it, just as much as the teabaggers.

"The sheeple don't understand."
\

[Don Coyote]

I think I'm missing a whole bunch of shit in this thread.

It's okay.  Just use the default settings:  Guns, massacre, etc.

You don't have to reference the things you're responding to, in this sort of thread.

So this is now


And we can just jump in screech about random talking points without bothering to make sense?

An interesting dichotomy exists between television shows and television commercials.

The commercials use the 8 circuit model to emphasize a myth of individuality (some of which are done in a diabolically clever way, like the "Bluebell Ice Cream" commericials), while the shows emphatically state that it's okay for an individualist to conform to the group or submit to authority by his or her own choice (that choice, of course, being an illusion).  Specific examples would be "24", where we "choose to allow" people like Jack Bauer to torture people for the common good, because he's an even more "rugged individualist" than we are, and can therefore be trusted to act in our stead.

Yeah, it's pretty interesting how so many TV shows right now center around an agency that's bigger than the government, or an individual (or individuals) who operate outside of the law, essentially taking care of things for the rest of us.

It's an odd dichotomy, reinforcing the idea of "rugged individualism GOOD!" while also providing the comforting notion that we're all being taken care of.

It's also funny how people can't or won't look at the situation, because it hits them square in the 2nd circuit.  You can explain until you're blue in the face, and they CAN'T LOOK AT IT.

Conditioning is a terrible thing.

Yeah, it's true. Trust me, I've tried to have this conversation before, about how the "rugged individualism" that Americans pride ourselves on so much is actually toxic and anti-community, as well as paradoxically anti-survival. Which is part of why I'm so interested in its origins.

People really can't wrap their heads around it, and avoid the shit out of it. Especially enlightened liberals, who feel special and hate the masses etc etc. They've bought into it completely, and it's too uncomfortable for them to examine the possibility that the only way to build a healthy society is to actually FUCKING BE A SOCIETY.

See I agree with this, but um, what more do I say?

[Don Coyote]

An interesting dichotomy exists between television shows and television commercials.

The commercials use the 8 circuit model to emphasize a myth of individuality (some of which are done in a diabolically clever way, like the "Bluebell Ice Cream" commericials), while the shows emphatically state that it's okay for an individualist to conform to the group or submit to authority by his or her own choice (that choice, of course, being an illusion).  Specific examples would be "24", where we "choose to allow" people like Jack Bauer to torture people for the common good, because he's an even more "rugged individualist" than we are, and can therefore be trusted to act in our stead.

Yeah, it's pretty interesting how so many TV shows right now center around an agency that's bigger than the government, or an individual (or individuals) who operate outside of the law, essentially taking care of things for the rest of us.

It's an odd dichotomy, reinforcing the idea of "rugged individualism GOOD!" while also providing the comforting notion that we're all being taken care of.

It's also funny how people can't or won't look at the situation, because it hits them square in the 2nd circuit.  You can explain until you're blue in the face, and they CAN'T LOOK AT IT.

Conditioning is a terrible thing.

Yeah, it's true. Trust me, I've tried to have this conversation before, about how the "rugged individualism" that Americans pride ourselves on so much is actually toxic and anti-community, as well as paradoxically anti-survival. Which is part of why I'm so interested in its origins.

People really can't wrap their heads around it, and avoid the shit out of it. Especially enlightened liberals, who feel special and hate the masses etc etc. They've bought into it completely, and it's too uncomfortable for them to examine the possibility that the only way to build a healthy society is to actually FUCKING BE A SOCIETY.

Yep.  It particularly doesn't fly in "rugged individualist" states, like Alaska (Alty seems to be an exception).  Or Texas, for that matter.

But you are correct.  While certain regions may have it worse than others, ALL OF THEM HAVE IT.

And I could see how the left fringe would really, really fall for it, just as much as the teabaggers.

"The sheeple don't understand."
\

How does it go?

You aren't really real <insert group here> unless you believe and act the way I deem to proper for <insert group here> otherwise you are part of <different group that is totally not us and is the enemy>?

[The Good Reverend Roger]

And we can just jump in screech about random talking points without bothering to make sense?

Please to look at the last 25 pages.