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The Compiled Rugged Individualist Conversation

Started by The Good Reverend Roger, December 19, 2012, 02:23:38 PM

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The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on December 20, 2012, 09:43:09 PM
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on December 20, 2012, 05:38:13 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 20, 2012, 05:24:17 PM
Quote from: hølist on December 20, 2012, 05:19:14 PM
I've become fascinated with Asch's conformity experiments and the interesting results that people in Japan and Britain, countries which are (for good reason) widely thought of as more communally-oriented, scored significantly lower for conformity than Americans on those experiments. It creates a sort of "Individualism Paradox" in which those who consider themselves most fiercely individualistic, when put to the test, are actually more conforming, possibly because of a sense of insecurity resulting from their disconnection from community.

The dangers of conformity became a media talking point in the 1950's, and people were encouraged to express their individuality. So far I haven't found this "American Individualism and the Dangers of Conformity" meme earlier than that, but I haven't had time to do very much research. The rise of Nazi Germany was widely blamed on conformity.

At the end of the war, the economy was facing some problems and the US needed consumers, badly. I am starting to suspect that the post-war emergence of self expression and free love was in part engineered by corporations who were seeking to create the largest group of materialists ever to exist on the planet, and met with great success... the Baby Boomers.

In other words, I think that hippies were the unintended consequence of a marketing campaign.  :lol:

That makes a disturbing amount of sense.

Yeah, as soon as it started to click into place I got that creepy "OHSHI-" feeling.

The Pill.

Not birth control pills themselves, which are a GOOD thing, but all the 1060's media attention/buzz about THE PILL.

"THE WORLD IS NEVER GONNA BE THE SAME BECAUSE THE PILL"

Birth control existed prior to that.

Yes, but the woman finally had CONTROL over it with the pill.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Anna Mae Bollocks

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 20, 2012, 09:44:36 PM
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on December 20, 2012, 09:43:09 PM
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on December 20, 2012, 05:38:13 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 20, 2012, 05:24:17 PM
Quote from: hølist on December 20, 2012, 05:19:14 PM
I've become fascinated with Asch's conformity experiments and the interesting results that people in Japan and Britain, countries which are (for good reason) widely thought of as more communally-oriented, scored significantly lower for conformity than Americans on those experiments. It creates a sort of "Individualism Paradox" in which those who consider themselves most fiercely individualistic, when put to the test, are actually more conforming, possibly because of a sense of insecurity resulting from their disconnection from community.

The dangers of conformity became a media talking point in the 1950's, and people were encouraged to express their individuality. So far I haven't found this "American Individualism and the Dangers of Conformity" meme earlier than that, but I haven't had time to do very much research. The rise of Nazi Germany was widely blamed on conformity.

At the end of the war, the economy was facing some problems and the US needed consumers, badly. I am starting to suspect that the post-war emergence of self expression and free love was in part engineered by corporations who were seeking to create the largest group of materialists ever to exist on the planet, and met with great success... the Baby Boomers.

In other words, I think that hippies were the unintended consequence of a marketing campaign.  :lol:

That makes a disturbing amount of sense.

Yeah, as soon as it started to click into place I got that creepy "OHSHI-" feeling.

The Pill.

Not birth control pills themselves, which are a GOOD thing, but all the 1060's media attention/buzz about THE PILL.

"THE WORLD IS NEVER GONNA BE THE SAME BECAUSE THE PILL"

Birth control existed prior to that.

Yes, but the woman finally had CONTROL over it with the pill.

Because diaphragms can take a whole three seconds to shove up there?  :lol:
Scantily-Clad Inspector of Gigantic and Unnecessary Cashews, Texas Division

The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on December 20, 2012, 09:47:30 PM
Because diaphragms can take a whole three seconds to shove up there?  :lol:

Assuming the man gave her  A) that 3 seconds, and B) the option.

Remember that spousal rape wasn't always a crime.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Anna Mae Bollocks

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 20, 2012, 09:49:12 PM
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on December 20, 2012, 09:47:30 PM
Because diaphragms can take a whole three seconds to shove up there?  :lol:

Assuming the man gave her  A) that 3 seconds, and B) the option.

Remember that spousal rape wasn't always a crime.

:x :x :x
Scantily-Clad Inspector of Gigantic and Unnecessary Cashews, Texas Division

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on December 20, 2012, 09:43:09 PM
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on December 20, 2012, 05:38:13 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 20, 2012, 05:24:17 PM
Quote from: hølist on December 20, 2012, 05:19:14 PM
I've become fascinated with Asch's conformity experiments and the interesting results that people in Japan and Britain, countries which are (for good reason) widely thought of as more communally-oriented, scored significantly lower for conformity than Americans on those experiments. It creates a sort of "Individualism Paradox" in which those who consider themselves most fiercely individualistic, when put to the test, are actually more conforming, possibly because of a sense of insecurity resulting from their disconnection from community.

The dangers of conformity became a media talking point in the 1950's, and people were encouraged to express their individuality. So far I haven't found this "American Individualism and the Dangers of Conformity" meme earlier than that, but I haven't had time to do very much research. The rise of Nazi Germany was widely blamed on conformity.

At the end of the war, the economy was facing some problems and the US needed consumers, badly. I am starting to suspect that the post-war emergence of self expression and free love was in part engineered by corporations who were seeking to create the largest group of materialists ever to exist on the planet, and met with great success... the Baby Boomers.

In other words, I think that hippies were the unintended consequence of a marketing campaign.  :lol:

That makes a disturbing amount of sense.

Yeah, as soon as it started to click into place I got that creepy "OHSHI-" feeling.

The Pill.

Not birth control pills themselves, which are a GOOD thing, but all the 1060's media attention/buzz about THE PILL.

"THE WORLD IS NEVER GONNA BE THE SAME BECAUSE THE PILL"

Birth control existed prior to that.

The Pill was a huge game-changer. It was the first form of birth control that could be taken in secret and was difficult to sabotage or tamper with, so that married women whose husbands weren't on board with birth control could still prevent pregnancy. It works 24/7, so that it prevents pregnancy in the case of rape. It put women's reproductive control in their own hands.
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


Anna Mae Bollocks

Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on December 20, 2012, 09:55:54 PM
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on December 20, 2012, 09:43:09 PM
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on December 20, 2012, 05:38:13 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 20, 2012, 05:24:17 PM
Quote from: hølist on December 20, 2012, 05:19:14 PM
I've become fascinated with Asch's conformity experiments and the interesting results that people in Japan and Britain, countries which are (for good reason) widely thought of as more communally-oriented, scored significantly lower for conformity than Americans on those experiments. It creates a sort of "Individualism Paradox" in which those who consider themselves most fiercely individualistic, when put to the test, are actually more conforming, possibly because of a sense of insecurity resulting from their disconnection from community.

The dangers of conformity became a media talking point in the 1950's, and people were encouraged to express their individuality. So far I haven't found this "American Individualism and the Dangers of Conformity" meme earlier than that, but I haven't had time to do very much research. The rise of Nazi Germany was widely blamed on conformity.

At the end of the war, the economy was facing some problems and the US needed consumers, badly. I am starting to suspect that the post-war emergence of self expression and free love was in part engineered by corporations who were seeking to create the largest group of materialists ever to exist on the planet, and met with great success... the Baby Boomers.

In other words, I think that hippies were the unintended consequence of a marketing campaign.  :lol:

That makes a disturbing amount of sense.

Yeah, as soon as it started to click into place I got that creepy "OHSHI-" feeling.

The Pill.

Not birth control pills themselves, which are a GOOD thing, but all the 1060's media attention/buzz about THE PILL.

"THE WORLD IS NEVER GONNA BE THE SAME BECAUSE THE PILL"

Birth control existed prior to that.

The Pill was a huge game-changer. It was the first form of birth control that could be taken in secret and was difficult to sabotage or tamper with, so that married women whose husbands weren't on board with birth control could still prevent pregnancy. It works 24/7, so that it prevents pregnancy in the case of rape. It put women's reproductive control in their own hands.

Assuming they could explain the clinic bill and pharmacy expenses.

Weren't the men still controlling the money for the most part?
Scantily-Clad Inspector of Gigantic and Unnecessary Cashews, Texas Division

Don Coyote

Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on December 20, 2012, 10:01:21 PM
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on December 20, 2012, 09:55:54 PM
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on December 20, 2012, 09:43:09 PM
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on December 20, 2012, 05:38:13 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 20, 2012, 05:24:17 PM
Quote from: hølist on December 20, 2012, 05:19:14 PM
I've become fascinated with Asch's conformity experiments and the interesting results that people in Japan and Britain, countries which are (for good reason) widely thought of as more communally-oriented, scored significantly lower for conformity than Americans on those experiments. It creates a sort of "Individualism Paradox" in which those who consider themselves most fiercely individualistic, when put to the test, are actually more conforming, possibly because of a sense of insecurity resulting from their disconnection from community.

The dangers of conformity became a media talking point in the 1950's, and people were encouraged to express their individuality. So far I haven't found this "American Individualism and the Dangers of Conformity" meme earlier than that, but I haven't had time to do very much research. The rise of Nazi Germany was widely blamed on conformity.

At the end of the war, the economy was facing some problems and the US needed consumers, badly. I am starting to suspect that the post-war emergence of self expression and free love was in part engineered by corporations who were seeking to create the largest group of materialists ever to exist on the planet, and met with great success... the Baby Boomers.

In other words, I think that hippies were the unintended consequence of a marketing campaign.  :lol:

That makes a disturbing amount of sense.

Yeah, as soon as it started to click into place I got that creepy "OHSHI-" feeling.

The Pill.

Not birth control pills themselves, which are a GOOD thing, but all the 1060's media attention/buzz about THE PILL.

"THE WORLD IS NEVER GONNA BE THE SAME BECAUSE THE PILL"

Birth control existed prior to that.

The Pill was a huge game-changer. It was the first form of birth control that could be taken in secret and was difficult to sabotage or tamper with, so that married women whose husbands weren't on board with birth control could still prevent pregnancy. It works 24/7, so that it prevents pregnancy in the case of rape. It put women's reproductive control in their own hands.

Assuming they could explain the clinic bill and pharmacy expenses.

Weren't the men still controlling the money for the most part?

I thought household expense was part of "women's work"

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on December 20, 2012, 10:01:21 PM
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on December 20, 2012, 09:55:54 PM
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on December 20, 2012, 09:43:09 PM
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on December 20, 2012, 05:38:13 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 20, 2012, 05:24:17 PM
Quote from: hølist on December 20, 2012, 05:19:14 PM
I've become fascinated with Asch's conformity experiments and the interesting results that people in Japan and Britain, countries which are (for good reason) widely thought of as more communally-oriented, scored significantly lower for conformity than Americans on those experiments. It creates a sort of "Individualism Paradox" in which those who consider themselves most fiercely individualistic, when put to the test, are actually more conforming, possibly because of a sense of insecurity resulting from their disconnection from community.

The dangers of conformity became a media talking point in the 1950's, and people were encouraged to express their individuality. So far I haven't found this "American Individualism and the Dangers of Conformity" meme earlier than that, but I haven't had time to do very much research. The rise of Nazi Germany was widely blamed on conformity.

At the end of the war, the economy was facing some problems and the US needed consumers, badly. I am starting to suspect that the post-war emergence of self expression and free love was in part engineered by corporations who were seeking to create the largest group of materialists ever to exist on the planet, and met with great success... the Baby Boomers.

In other words, I think that hippies were the unintended consequence of a marketing campaign.  :lol:

That makes a disturbing amount of sense.

Yeah, as soon as it started to click into place I got that creepy "OHSHI-" feeling.

The Pill.

Not birth control pills themselves, which are a GOOD thing, but all the 1060's media attention/buzz about THE PILL.

"THE WORLD IS NEVER GONNA BE THE SAME BECAUSE THE PILL"

Birth control existed prior to that.

The Pill was a huge game-changer. It was the first form of birth control that could be taken in secret and was difficult to sabotage or tamper with, so that married women whose husbands weren't on board with birth control could still prevent pregnancy. It works 24/7, so that it prevents pregnancy in the case of rape. It put women's reproductive control in their own hands.

Assuming they could explain the clinic bill and pharmacy expenses.

Weren't the men still controlling the money for the most part?

Domestic expenses like doctor visits and pills would have been easy to skate under the radar. Women were supposed to take care of things like that, and they were cheap back then. Plus, easy to put the blame on cramps or "nerves".
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on December 20, 2012, 10:20:29 PM
Domestic expenses like doctor visits and pills would have been easy to skate under the radar. Women were supposed to take care of things like that, and they were cheap back then. Plus, easy to put the blame on cramps or "nerves".

My mother described sympathetic doctors in the 60s & 70s who would put it down as medicine for nervousness, which isn't actually a lie when you think about it.

:lulz:
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 20, 2012, 10:22:20 PM
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on December 20, 2012, 10:20:29 PM
Domestic expenses like doctor visits and pills would have been easy to skate under the radar. Women were supposed to take care of things like that, and they were cheap back then. Plus, easy to put the blame on cramps or "nerves".

My mother described sympathetic doctors in the 60s & 70s who would put it down as medicine for nervousness, which isn't actually a lie when you think about it.

:lulz:

Getting pregnant totally makes me nervous...
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


The Good Reverend Roger

Best response on Scrubgenius so far:

On Thursday, December 20, 2012 4:55:43 AM UTC-8, Dr. Marcus Membrane wrote:

    The point was that even the idea of a "Rugged Individualist" is an idea we're programmed with.

    I remember coming home from work one night on the Rapid Transit and hearing someone
    singing. I turned around and saw a guy in the last seat masturbating and singing "La Bamba"
    at the top of his lungs. As I made my way to another car, I remember thinking "Now THAT'S
    a Rugged Individualist."
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 20, 2012, 11:20:34 PM
Best response on Scrubgenius so far:

On Thursday, December 20, 2012 4:55:43 AM UTC-8, Dr. Marcus Membrane wrote:

    The point was that even the idea of a "Rugged Individualist" is an idea we're programmed with.

    I remember coming home from work one night on the Rapid Transit and hearing someone
    singing. I turned around and saw a guy in the last seat masturbating and singing "La Bamba"
    at the top of his lungs. As I made my way to another car, I remember thinking "Now THAT'S
    a Rugged Individualist."

Oh FUCK YES.
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


hirley0

#42
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/sections/mrsa-superbug/
the nging "La Bamba" year was '69


Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on December 21, 2012, 08:16:26 AM


Oh FUCK YES.




Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on December 20, 2012, 11:20:34 PM
Best response on Scrubgenius so far:

On Thursday, December 20, 2012 4:55:43 AM UTC-8, Dr. Marcus Membrane wrote:

    The point was that even the idea of a "Rugged Individualist" is an idea we're programmed with.

    I remember coming home from work one night on the Rapid Transit and hearing someone
    singing. I turned around and saw a guy in the last seat masturbating and singing "La Bamba"
    at the top of his lungs. As I made my way to another car, I remember thinking "Now THAT'S

    a Rugged Individualist."








Richter

Glad I found this topic.

Rugged individualists are NOT gun store commandos, mall ninjas, home-improvement specialists, MMA gym dwellers, survival course trainers, or the shooting range equivalent of the golf clubs "Pro". 
These may be consumer whores, or carefully disguised plants.  A person may go to one of their places looking for a simple item, solution, experience, or training.  This person then models an example of "How it is done right", and shows them the ever increasingly expensive path to doing it MORE RIGHT. 
Are they peddling some useful stuff along the way?  Sure, possibly.  They do not sell an ultimate goal, or ever transition to other areas to address other needs though.  That is where the aspiring "Rugged Individual" has to step in and transition themselves.  Hopefully before their weekends and paycheck up through retirement are tied up in malarky.  Like Roger pointed out well  - it's stuff to keep you busy until you die.

When does the Rugged Individual come into their own?  I'm not even going to humor "Shit hits the fan" scenarios.  These are modern mythology.  An almost masturbatory desire that something will happen that puts everyone's skill set to shame BUT yours.  Bow, scrape, and hoard at the altar of PREPAREDNESS long enough and you will be rewarded roughing it in comfort while everyone else screams and dies.  (We have heard this before)  (More on this eventually.)

Further, despite the "24" example given earlier, society doesn't actually WANT proper rugged individuals.  Your neighbors don't want an armed nutter, your family doesn't want to worry, your workplace doesn't want someone to suggest or question the Manual or Procedure, and the TSA, despite how close at hand the gloves are, do not want to know about your corn intake.

More importantly, what kind of life do you want out of it all?  We don't want to be another pinkboy corporate drone, we don't want to be the guy jacking it and singing on the subway (good an example of the principle as it may be), and if you think a life prepparing and flinching it fun  go for it you are not worth my time. 

One possible taken on this - be ready to calibrate your nuttiness to the situation. 
Camo at the office - BAD.
Rifle on the subway JUST IN CASE SOMEONE SNAPS-BAD.
Bomb shelter - I hope you like rad poisoning instead of incineration- BAD.

Find where the line is.  Press on it.  Stretch their rear envelope Nigel Style.  You have to find where and how to do this for your own situation, and carry it out where it makes sense to you.  Ripping it may resulting in sudden quashing.  If you think this is knuckling under to "The System", please bear in mind that an elephant shitting is part of a "System" too.  IF you're going to walk up to its ass and decide to defy it you better have a damn fine cork.  At least wear a hat.
Quote from: Eater of Clowns on May 22, 2015, 03:00:53 AM
Anyone ever think about how Richter inhabits the same reality as you and just scream and scream and scream, but in a good way?   :lulz:

Friendly Neighborhood Mentat

Cainad (dec.)

Quote from: Richter on January 01, 2013, 04:25:04 PM
Glad I found this topic.

Rugged individualists are NOT gun store commandos, mall ninjas, home-improvement specialists, MMA gym dwellers, survival course trainers, or the shooting range equivalent of the golf clubs "Pro". 
These may be consumer whores, or carefully disguised plants.  A person may go to one of their places looking for a simple item, solution, experience, or training.  This person then models an example of "How it is done right", and shows them the ever increasingly expensive path to doing it MORE RIGHT. 
Are they peddling some useful stuff along the way?  Sure, possibly.  They do not sell an ultimate goal, or ever transition to other areas to address other needs though.  That is where the aspiring "Rugged Individual" has to step in and transition themselves.  Hopefully before their weekends and paycheck up through retirement are tied up in malarky.  Like Roger pointed out well  - it's stuff to keep you busy until you die.

When does the Rugged Individual come into their own?  I'm not even going to humor "Shit hits the fan" scenarios.  These are modern mythology.  An almost masturbatory desire that something will happen that puts everyone's skill set to shame BUT yours.  Bow, scrape, and hoard at the altar of PREPAREDNESS long enough and you will be rewarded roughing it in comfort while everyone else screams and dies.  (We have heard this before)  (More on this eventually.)

Further, despite the "24" example given earlier, society doesn't actually WANT proper rugged individuals.  Your neighbors don't want an armed nutter, your family doesn't want to worry, your workplace doesn't want someone to suggest or question the Manual or Procedure, and the TSA, despite how close at hand the gloves are, do not want to know about your corn intake.

More importantly, what kind of life do you want out of it all?  We don't want to be another pinkboy corporate drone, we don't want to be the guy jacking it and singing on the subway (good an example of the principle as it may be), and if you think a life prepparing and flinching it fun  go for it you are not worth my time. 

One possible taken on this - be ready to calibrate your nuttiness to the situation. 
Camo at the office - BAD.
Rifle on the subway JUST IN CASE SOMEONE SNAPS-BAD.
Bomb shelter - I hope you like rad poisoning instead of incineration- BAD.

Find where the line is.  Press on it.  Stretch their rear envelope Nigel Style.  You have to find where and how to do this for your own situation, and carry it out where it makes sense to you.  Ripping it may resulting in sudden quashing.  If you think this is knuckling under to "The System", please bear in mind that an elephant shitting is part of a "System" too.  IF you're going to walk up to its ass and decide to defy it you better have a damn fine cork.  At least wear a hat.



I've been awake for 30 minutes and this post is what I've had for breakfast so far.