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These suburbs are mired in Cartesian dualism

Started by Cain, February 18, 2013, 07:26:33 PM

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Reginald Ret

Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on February 19, 2013, 09:17:21 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 19, 2013, 05:14:53 PM
Quote from: :regret: on February 19, 2013, 04:44:13 PM
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on February 19, 2013, 03:18:12 PM
Quote from: :regret: on February 19, 2013, 12:30:18 PM
Wittgenstein was a Logic and Language philosopher useless wankjob.


fixt
Well, he got me thinking about the importance of communicating in the same language as your audience.
So not completely useless.
On the other hand, he was a philosopher, and useless wankjob is a jobrequirement.

Except Franz Kafka, would would fucking anybody.

This is true.

I'll exclude the really good novelists from my general categorization of philosophers as useless wankjobs.
Agreed.
The only useful philosopher is a novelling wankjob.
Lord Byron: "Those who will not reason, are bigots, those who cannot, are fools, and those who dare not, are slaves."

Nigel saying the wisest words ever uttered: "It's just a suffix."

"The worst forum ever" "The most mediocre forum on the internet" "The dumbest forum on the internet" "The most retarded forum on the internet" "The lamest forum on the internet" "The coolest forum on the internet"

deadfong

Quote from: :regret: on February 19, 2013, 12:30:18 PM
Wittgenstein was a Logic and Language philosopher.
QuoteThe early Wittgenstein was concerned with the logical relationship between propositions and the world, and believed that by providing an account of the logic underlying this relationship he had solved all philosophical problems.

He got so good at aneristic illusions that he thought he defined everything with a logical frame.
Then he finally relaxed.
Not soon after that he realised he had been an idiot for the first half of his life.

I took the term Wittgensteinian to mean 'in the spirit of the early Wittgenstein, especially his Tractatus Logico Philosophicus. (Mainly because that is the only Wittgenstein i ever tried to read. One of the few books i couldn't finish.)
I can really recommend trying to read it. He writes EVERYTHING in bulletpoints embedded in bulletpoints embedded in bulletpoints. etc etc ad nauseam.

Never read the Tractatus, but did read (parts of) his Philosophical Investigations when I was an undergrad.  As I recall, the theme of that book was something like Language as Play, the work of a guy who'd been an uptight philosopher who'd given up on that and was simply fucking around now for the fun of it.  I deeply offended the philosophy majors in that class when I said, unlike the other analytic philosophers we'd read that semester, Wittgenstein wrote like a real person.

Of course, it's been 20 (!) years since I read Wittgenstein, so my memory might be way better than the reality.

Reginald Ret

Quote from: deadfong on February 21, 2013, 12:32:22 PM
Quote from: :regret: on February 19, 2013, 12:30:18 PM
Wittgenstein was a Logic and Language philosopher.
QuoteThe early Wittgenstein was concerned with the logical relationship between propositions and the world, and believed that by providing an account of the logic underlying this relationship he had solved all philosophical problems.

He got so good at aneristic illusions that he thought he defined everything with a logical frame.
Then he finally relaxed.
Not soon after that he realised he had been an idiot for the first half of his life.

I took the term Wittgensteinian to mean 'in the spirit of the early Wittgenstein, especially his Tractatus Logico Philosophicus. (Mainly because that is the only Wittgenstein i ever tried to read. One of the few books i couldn't finish.)
I can really recommend trying to read it. He writes EVERYTHING in bulletpoints embedded in bulletpoints embedded in bulletpoints. etc etc ad nauseam.

Never read the Tractatus, but did read (parts of) his Philosophical Investigations when I was an undergrad.  As I recall, the theme of that book was something like Language as Play, the work of a guy who'd been an uptight philosopher who'd given up on that and was simply fucking around now for the fun of it.  I deeply offended the philosophy majors in that class when I said, unlike the other analytic philosophers we'd read that semester, Wittgenstein wrote like a real person.

Of course, it's been 20 (!) years since I read Wittgenstein, so my memory might be way better than the reality.
I'll have to read some of the late Wittgenstein then, sounds better.
Lord Byron: "Those who will not reason, are bigots, those who cannot, are fools, and those who dare not, are slaves."

Nigel saying the wisest words ever uttered: "It's just a suffix."

"The worst forum ever" "The most mediocre forum on the internet" "The dumbest forum on the internet" "The most retarded forum on the internet" "The lamest forum on the internet" "The coolest forum on the internet"

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

I am required to take a certain number of humanities credits in order to graduate, and I have a choice between choosing some random art I don't care about, or a philosophy class. 

I might take the philosophy class, just for the opportunity to annoy my classmates.
"I'm guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk," Charles Wick said. "It was very complicated."


Golden Applesauce

Wittgenstein's (later) work on language is some of the better philosophy you'll read, and hugely influential on modern linguistics. He takes other philosophers to task for dicking around with ineffable meanings of words and instead looks at language as not a symbolic representation of RealityTM (or subjective, internal mental models thereof) but "that thing people use to interact with / manipulate each other." A bit like Behaviorism, in that it dispenses with the unobservable internal states that philosophers have so much fun talking about in favor of stuff that can actually be observed, measured, and studied.
Q: How regularly do you hire 8th graders?
A: We have hired a number of FORMER 8th graders.