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Started by East Coast Hustle, February 26, 2013, 08:58:03 AM

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The Good Reverend Roger

#15
February 26, 2013, 05:49:52 PM
:cluephone:

You do not change the world by gabbing and sending $20.

You do not change the world by glad-handing the subject and then walking away from it.

In fact, you do not change the world by doing anything you can walk away from without a fight.

FIRST, something is done.  THEN you spread the word that it's been done.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

The Good Reverend Roger

#16
February 26, 2013, 05:51:41 PM
The Occupy people were, in most places, reasonable.  The result?  They learned and the police learned that large scale demonstrations are easily subverted and brought to an end.

Oakland was a little different.  They've got STONES out there.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Elder Iptuous

#17
February 26, 2013, 05:54:56 PM
agreed.  i think that if you wanted to be significantly and directly involved in addressing the problem, you would probably have to work for an organization like this.

however, they have some testimonials of some individuals who helped some other individuals out of a forced work situation here in the states, and what steps are necessary to do that.

if it really concerns you, and yet you believe that nothing. can. be. done.  then you're probably right.
i mean...  i'm probably not going to do anything either, so i'm certainly not on a high horse here. :/

The Good Reverend Roger

#18
February 26, 2013, 05:55:01 PM
Had they ALL acted like Oakland, something might have been accomplished.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

The Good Reverend Roger

#19
February 26, 2013, 05:59:12 PM
Quote from: Elder Iptuous on February 26, 2013, 05:54:56 PM
however, they have some testimonials of some individuals who helped some other individuals out of a forced work situation here in the states, and what steps are necessary to do that.

Dealing with it HERE is easy.  It involves about 6 felony charges.  So I'm reasonably certain that any "action" that didn't end with "then I called the cops" is utter and complete horseshit.

Dealing with it outside of our borders is harder.

Also, I never said "do nothing".  I am saying that something MUST be done.  I just don't yet know WHAT.

But I know what it ISN'T.  It isn't Facebook or causes.com.  It isn't some attention-whorey, 99% bullshit website.  It isn't running out and screeching like a loon, thus inflicting emotional fatigue and apathy in everyone around you.

All that shit has been done, and it has all FAILED.  Trying it again is STUPID.

If we're worth a fuck as Discordians or even just people, we should be able to think of something that might actually have potential success.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

The Good Reverend Roger

#20
February 26, 2013, 06:03:54 PM
NOTE:  Slavery was NECESSARY before the invention of the horse collar.  Since then it has not been necessary.  It has been desireable in the eyes of the already-rich, for the purpose of getting richer, by consuming the labor and the lives of the very poor.

THAT RIGHT THERE IS THE ROOT OF THE MATTER.

And once you have a root cause, you can begin to form something resembling an idea that might even lead to an actionable plan.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

tyrannosaurus vex

#21
February 26, 2013, 06:09:12 PM
I wonder how much of a difference, or at least how much of an impression, could be made by a company, like say Discordicorp™, just showing up out of absolutely nowhere and volunteering the same (or a slightly larger) amount of money and support that an average village makes while subjected to slavery? And then bragging about it on Facebook (or whatever)?

PRESS RELEASE: DISCORDICORP™ PURCHASES 25 YOUNG, HEALTHY INDONESIAN SLAVES FOR THE BARGAIN PRICE OF $350 U.S.D. PER YEAR. NEITHER RESALE NOR PUBLIC BIDDING WILL NOT BE FORTHCOMING, HOWEVER, AS THESE PARTICULAR MODELS ARE SLATED FOR IMMEDIATE USE IN THE "NOT BEING SLAVES" INDUSTRY.
Evil and Unfeeling Arse-Flenser From The City of the Damned.

LMNO

#22
February 26, 2013, 06:12:25 PM
Huh.

Well, I'm not sure I ever heard an idea like that before, so that's something.

I can't tell if there's a faint whiff of colonialism somehow, or maybe I'm just feeling weird about essentially buying another human in the name of "ending slavery".

The Good Reverend Roger

#23
February 26, 2013, 06:14:46 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on February 26, 2013, 06:12:25 PM
Huh.

Well, I'm not sure I ever heard an idea like that before, so that's something.

I can't tell if there's a faint whiff of colonialism somehow, or maybe I'm just feeling weird about essentially buying another human in the name of "ending slavery".

You create a market if you do that.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Elder Iptuous

#24
February 26, 2013, 06:15:29 PM
well, slavery isn't legal anywhere on the planet according to the FtS site, so you couldn't just go buy them, because they aren't legally owned.  it's just that they are put in, or coerced into a situation where they can't escape, and have to work for some shitbag...

so in order to do something like that, i guess you would have to go there, set up shop, and fairly compensate the people for their labor.

tyrannosaurus vex

#25
February 26, 2013, 06:16:02 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on February 26, 2013, 06:12:25 PM
Huh.

Well, I'm not sure I ever heard an idea like that before, so that's something.

I can't tell if there's a faint whiff of colonialism somehow, or maybe I'm just feeling weird about essentially buying another human in the name of "ending slavery".

It isn't about buying people, it's about preempting the power their current owners have over them. The language is of course offensive, but that's the point. Release something like that and people would be all "That's preposterous! There's no such thing as slavery these days!" And then, some of them might find out how wrong they are.
Evil and Unfeeling Arse-Flenser From The City of the Damned.

LMNO

#26
February 26, 2013, 06:17:45 PM
Like I said, it's a new idea to me, so I'm not going to reject it out of hand.

tyrannosaurus vex

#27
February 26, 2013, 06:17:55 PM
Quote from: Elder Iptuous on February 26, 2013, 06:15:29 PM
well, slavery isn't legal anywhere on the planet according to the FtS site, so you couldn't just go buy them, because they aren't legally owned.  it's just that they are put in, or coerced into a situation where they can't escape, and have to work for some shitbag...

so in order to do something like that, i guess you would have to go there, set up shop, and fairly compensate the people for their labor.


Sure. Rent a factory somewhere and employ 150 people for a penny a day each, except instead of T-shirts or Nikes, they'd be producing... uhh... nothing. In fact you could have a strict "come to work if you want, don't if you don't want" policy. And anyone who shows up to work gets to do whatever they want.
Evil and Unfeeling Arse-Flenser From The City of the Damned.

The Good Reverend Roger

#28
February 26, 2013, 06:21:24 PM
It all comes down to economics.

Back in the year dirt, before the horse collar, a horse could do about the same amount of work as 3 people without choking itself on its harness.  Problem:  Horses eat about 5 times as much as people do.  Conclusion:  People are the best draft animals under that technology.  That lasted about 8000 years.

The horse collar replaced the throat collar in Western Europe in about 920 AD (it had existed in China for 400 years at that point).  At that point, the horse could do the work of 2 oxen (which ate even more), or about 10-20 people.  At this point, slavery was no longer necessary for survival.

Slavery today exists only for greed.  This greed is driven by many levels of society.  You want cheap clothes.  Kathy Lee Gifford wants cheap labor, and thus a higher gross margin.  You want the same thing, because it increases the value of your 401K.

So, corporate greed + personal greed = misery for someone else.

" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

The Good Reverend Roger

#29
February 26, 2013, 06:22:09 PM Last Edit: February 26, 2013, 06:27:00 PM by The Good Reverend Roger
Quote from: Elder Iptuous on February 26, 2013, 06:15:29 PM
well, slavery isn't legal anywhere on the planet according to the FtS site, so you couldn't just go buy them, because they aren't legally owned.  it's just that they are put in, or coerced into a situation where they can't escape, and have to work for some shitbag...

so in order to do something like that, i guess you would have to go there, set up shop, and fairly compensate the people for their labor.

De jure?  No, it isn't legal anywhere.  De facto?  Ask an Apple "employee" in China.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

"Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.
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