PARENTING

[tyrannosaurus vex]

Most of the time, I feel like I should rate "fair to average" in the "Parenting Skills" category. I mean, I play with my kids, I try to help them maintain their innocence and wonder, I try to teach them awesome science whenever possible, but I also snap and bark at them like the idiot monkey I am, sometimes when I play with them I'm doing it out of obligation and not because I really want to, and in general I am consciously aware of a few things I could and should improve about my parenting, so there must be quite a few things I'm failing at and don't realize.

So, given that, I would expect my kids to be "fair to average" in the smarts-and-behavior category, but that isn't what happens. Compared to the 10 or so neighborhood kids that are always breezing through our house (apparently ours is the only kid-friendly house out of all of them), my two children are light years ahead of the rest in just about every category. This makes me wonder:

IF I CAN DO IT, WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH THE REST OF THESE PARENTS OUT THERE?

I mean, how motherfucking hard is it to raise kids who
- Don't steal things
- Don't lie
- Get to eat reasonably healthy food at reasonably predictable intervals*
- Know how to share while also respecting the property of others
- Don't play the "do it my way or I'm going home" game
- etc.

I am not a rock star, and neither is my wife. We don't make a ton of money. We don't hire nannies and tutors. We just understand how to put the kids' needs ahead of our own desires, which seems to be a skill nobody knows anymore. What I don't understand is nobody taught us that skill -- not our parents, not the schools -- it just seems to be the natural order of things, so it doesn't seem like that much of a sacrifice. But if WE can do this, 90% by instinct and the other 10% by failing hard the first time and trying a different approach, why are we in what appears to be such a tiny minority of parents?

But these other kids who come over here, apparently at their houses, they never eat anything, they aren't expected to be civilized, they can take things without asking, they prefer to scream and kick and punch rather than discuss things, and yet their parents are "strict" and "don't allow us to do nothing." I don't understand.




* Seriously, my kids' doctor was actually surprised at their recent check-up that neither of them were anemic. Apparently, being anemic due to under-eating in general or overeating junk food is now considered "average." WHAT THE FUCK AMERICA?

[AFK]

My theory/opinion...shifts in priorities.


Too much focus on providing materially compared to providing socially/emotionally.


My kids have gone through this divorce like champs because despite all of the screeching my ex and I have done at each other through this whole thing.  Without question, the understanding was the screeching doesn't happen in front of the kids AND the kids get a united front as parents.  That is because as parent the social/emotional needs have always been #1.  And that, in part, is why my kids are happy, healthy, and thriving.

[navkat]

Okay, kids fuck up. They're kids. They lie, steal (silly, LITTLE pilfering, I mean. Little kids stealing a lipgloss off my bathroom counter, yes. Going through my wallet, NO), make shit up, try to get away with mouthing off to non-parent adults and generally act little little douchenozzles until they're about 24 years old.

Maybe I've been in the South too long but I'm a believer in "It takes a village." If they're being douchey, call their parents. In front of them.

If the parents are outraged and correct the behavior, WIN.
If the parents are lackadaisical, fail to respond entirely or get defensive with YOU, Get that kid out of your house. Promptly. I don't care if it hurts their feelings, tell them they aren't invited back at your house. There are a couple of reasons for this:

1. If you let the kid stay, it will only get worse: "My mom told YOU. Haha." The kid has now been proactively taught the lesson to disrespect you.
2. It only gets worse as they get older. The kid gains a sense of entitlement being around your things. There will come a day when this kid is a teenager and if he's still around, the minute you trust your kid to hold down the fort while you're at the store, he will treat your home like a used sock at a Cosplay Con. When it gets so bad, you finally have to ask him to leave, he gets angry at you and starts pulling "pranks" like nails in your tires and stolen bicycles.
3. Keeping the nasty kid around teaches YOUR kid a fucked up lesson too.
4. The pain of being UNinvited from your home might be the first and only lesson this kid gets about the embarrassing social consequences of being a douchenozzle and may, in fact, make him sorry enough to apologize and behave himself.

[navkat]

I'm wondering: where do you live, V3X?

[tyrannosaurus vex]

I live around Phoenix.

And yeah, I know kids fuck up. Mine aren't PERFECT or anything. But they don't steal actual things from other kids. Also we do involve their parents, but we do get a lot of the "meh, whatever, kids are kids LOL" bullshit.

Also they eat ALL THE FOOD. But that's normal, I don't worry about that too much.

[Pergamos]

As a child I lied, I stole (shoplifting, not from other kids, but still, stupid) I spraypainted and vandalized.  My parent's parented me, my sister, and my brother about the same.  I was the only one who got in trouble, my sister was completely straight edge and straight A, my brother drank a little and got B's.  Kids are different, some kids are easy.  I'm not the best dad in the world but my daughter is a basically good kid, so I got lucky.  Sounds like you got lucky too.  Sometimes a shitty kid has shitty parents, sometimes he or she just has unlucky parents. 

[Elder Iptuous]

it's a mixed bag in my observation.
when my sister and i were growing up, my parents did a good job, and we were both 'model kids'.  we behaved very well.
when we saw other kids acting up in public, and it was obvious to us that their parents were doing it wrong.  they obviously weren't laying down the law, or were inconsistent, etc.

when we had our first child this was reinforced.  my wife and i thought we were just awesome parents because this was so easy and our child behaved so well.

then we had our second child.  he's hell on wheels and we struggle every damned day.  he's a good kid, and smart, but it's tough.  (i never used the word 'willful' as much as i have these past couple of years.)  I'd still say he's above average in behavior to the untamed masses' kiddos, but he doesn't have the inherent empathy and consideration that my older one has. 

so, although it is inexcusable for the parents to allow such behavior with a shrug and a 'lol, kids!', i understand, only recently, that it can be motherfucking hard to raise some kids to maintain proper behavior while unsupervised.

[tyrannosaurus vex]

We do have headaches. My son is borderline autistic, and my daughter was born with a severe (~73 degree) curvature of her spine (Thanks, Zoloft! LOL). So we aren't exactly the Brady Bunch or anything. My son has wild mood swings, tantrums, etc. It can be awful to deal with sometimes, especially in public where we can't just let him cry it out, but we refuse to give in to his demands just because he's making demands, and we can't hit him with things because he has an attractive face and I'd hate to mess that up for him.

But there are clues that other parents give fewer fucks than we do about their kids. Things like "we don't ever have food at our house," but their parents have brand new cars. Or the kids go to school unwashed, hair all greasy, clothes dirty and/or worn out, but the parents always have their makeup done, their suit pressed, etc. It just bugs me to see so many kids who get stuck so far down on their parents' list of priorities.

[Elder Iptuous]

i hear you, man.
i see it all the time,too.
for instance,  my wife does lunch monitor at my son's kindergarten, and she said there's a couple kids that come to school with a bag of chips for their lunch.  like a family size bag of chips.  only.  regularly.  wtf?

in dealing with my younger son, my wife and i will not infrequently express that we feel like bad parents because of how difficult it can be.  but being a bad parent is probably like what i've heard about being a madman.  if you worry that you are one, you probably aren't.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

A few thoughts:

Often, "We don't have any food at my house" is kid code for "The food at my house isn't as tasty and exotic as the food at your house, so I'm gonna eat all your food so I can say I'm not hungry when I go home and my mom tries to give me meatloaf and peas".

Also, often kids who respect the boundaries in their own home know that different boundaries apply in different places, and act like it's a free-for-all as soon as they're in a new environment. That means that you have to set boundaries for them in YOUR home.

The apparent contradiction in "my parents are strict and don't let us do anything" coming from a kid that has no apparent manners or boundaries is something I've seen over and over again, especially from kids who are routinely spanked for misbehavior, or have similarly authoritarian punishments. Not to say that spanking is bad, but when parents rely on it to the exclusion of other useful parental tools like talking sense, shaming, and applying guilt, a kid's sole sense of moral development becomes "whether I got caught". So, those rotten beasts who act like a pack of baboons at your house, might, indeed, get their asses beat for similar behavior at home... but Momma ain't there to belt 'em good, so all bets are off.

Lastly, the correct answer to "Well, kids will be kids" is, "If that's how you're raising him, he is no longer welcome at my house, I'm sorry."

[tyrannosaurus vex]

A few thoughts:

Often, "We don't have any food at my house" is kid code for "The food at my house isn't as tasty and exotic as the food at your house, so I'm gonna eat all your food so I can say I'm not hungry when I go home and my mom tries to give me meatloaf and peas".

Also, often kids who respect the boundaries in their own home know that different boundaries apply in different places, and act like it's a free-for-all as soon as they're in a new environment. That means that you have to set boundaries for them in YOUR home.

The apparent contradiction in "my parents are strict and don't let us do anything" coming from a kid that has no apparent manners or boundaries is something I've seen over and over again, especially from kids who are routinely spanked for misbehavior, or have similarly authoritarian punishments. Not to say that spanking is bad, but when parents rely on it to the exclusion of other useful parental tools like talking sense, shaming, and applying guilt, a kid's sole sense of moral development becomes "whether I got caught". So, those rotten beasts who act like a pack of baboons at your house, might, indeed, get their asses beat for similar behavior at home... but Momma ain't there to belt 'em good, so all bets are off.

Lastly, the correct answer to "Well, kids will be kids" is, "If that's how you're raising him, he is no longer welcome at my house, I'm sorry."

That's helpful! Thanks. I guess there's a lot going on that simple assumptions don't necessarily explain very well. Of course, it would be hard to find food less exotic than what we have around most of the time (ramen, PB&J, occasional fruit snacks). But on the food thing specifically, I notice that almost none of these kids' families actually do "lunch time" or "dinner time." I don't know what it's like in their houses, but I can't imagine having any sanity without routines (not that we have many of them), even if they do seem 'old fashioned.'

I'm not really pulling my hair out in exasperation at these kids, they actually are fairly good for the most part except for one or two of them that aren't allowed inside (and their parents know it, and know why). It's just that it seems like they're lawless barbarians most of the time, like tiny little Visigoths.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Kids fucking love ramen, if they don't have to (or aren't allowed to) eat it all the time. It's pretty much empty calories. If you have store-bought bread and non-hippie peanut butter, that shit is like a total nom-treat to kids whose parents won't feed them that kind of thing. Jam is pure sugar. Fruit snacks are basically candy. Plus, kids tend to like whatever food isn't on offer at their house.

So, yeah, that might very well be your answer.

[Cain]

Peanut butter is horrific.

A friend of mine and his girlfriend, due to money issues, once lived off peanut butter and nothing else for about 3 weeks.  The results were...not pretty.

[tyrannosaurus vex]

Peanut butter is a miracle food. It is second only to bacon in Vitamin Awesome, I'll have you know. And the calories in peanut butter are good calories.

[Eater of Clowns]

You know what's better than peanut butter AND bacon?

peanut butter and bacon.